Turbosound Impact 80.2 vs. EV SX100

[wagster]

I'm putting together a few small two- and four-speaker pa systems for a
client (hotel) who will be hiring them out to conferences. The last
system I supplied to them was a Dynacord Powermate1000/EV SX300 system
which continues to its duties well, so for these smaller systems I've
specified Powermate 600's and SX100's. Continuity and all that.

But... I've now been asked to supply Turbosound Impact 80.2's in place
of the SX100's. Has anyone used these? What are they like? On paper
they seem less efficient - 93dB vs 98dB @1w/1m, is that much of a
difference?

Dispersion is similar - SX100's: 65° 80.2's: 60°. I expect that
being Turbo's they'll sound ok, but then again, I made that assumption
about the Floodlights...

In the Turbo's favour, they are less than half the weight.

Any opinions?

[noisepolice]

.

Post by wagster
Any opinions?

Not in direct answer to your question....

Post by wagster
difference?
Dispersion is similar - SX100's: 65° 80.2's: 60°.

But 5 dB difference in sensitivity means you need just over 3 times the
power to get the same amount of sound from the speaker.

If you are only using these for speech your maximum achievable level
will be limited by GBF rather than acoustical output. But for playback
of videos etc the difference might matter, especially if you are not
adding a sub or two for the music channels.

Post by wagster
I expect that being Turbo's they'll sound ok, ...

Like almost everyone else these days (just look at JBL, Shure, poor old
Altec, etc etc) Turbosound are happy to put their name on anything they
can sell. It is no longer a guarantee of an upmarket product.

Post by wagster
but then again, I made that assumption about the Floodlights...

Surprised at your comment re Flashlight. I had extensive experience
with them and always thought they were pretty good.

n.p.

[noisepolice]

...

Any opinions?....

Not in direct answer to your question....

difference?
Dispersion is similar - SX100's: 65° 80.2's: 60°.

But 5 dB difference in sensitivity means you need just over 3 times the
power to get the same amount of sound from the speaker.

If you are only using these for speech your maximum achievable level
will be limited by GBF rather than acoustical output. But for playback
of videos etc the difference might matter, especially if you are not
adding a sub or two for the music channels.

I expect that being Turbo's they'll sound ok, ...

Like almost everyone else these days (just look at JBL, Shure, poor old
Altec, etc etc) Turbosound are happy to put their name on anything they
can sell. It is no longer a guarantee of an upmarket product.

but then again, I made that assumption about the Floodlights...

Surprised at your comment re Floodlight. I had extensive experience
with them and always thought they were pretty good.

n.p.

Sorry if you got this message twice. This is Take Two. Edited to
correct my silly error when writing a product name!

[Eeyore]

Post by wagster
On paper
difference?

Yes.

It's the same as having 1/4 the amplifier power.

Graham

[Arny Krueger]

Post by Eeyore

Post by wagster
On paper
much of a difference?

Yes.
It's the same as having 1/4 the amplifier power.

I found similar differences when comparing some Berhinger speakers to EV
speakers with similar functions.

[Eeyore]

Post by Arny Krueger

Post by Eeyore

Post by wagster
On paper
much of a difference?

Yes.
It's the same as having 1/4 the amplifier power.

I found similar differences when comparing some Berhinger speakers to EV
speakers with similar functions.

I've noticed that some of the Behringer sensitivity ratings are indeed quite low
for SR myself. It's a serious shortcoming.

Graham

[wagster]

Thanks folks. I'm rather embarrassed at having forgotten that a 6dB
drop means quarter the power. I may have to go and reread Sound 101
again.

n.p. - I have only a little experience with Floodlights and was fairly
unimpressed - but it could just as easily have been the room or... me
(no, it can't possibly have been, never).

[noisepolice]

Post by wagster
Thanks folks. I'm rather embarrassed at having forgotten that a 6dB
drop means quarter the power. I may have to go and reread Sound 101
again.

It might be worth delving into the manufacturers' declarations of how
they measure sensitivity (should be on the spec sheets, if not, try
their websites). That could account for some of the difference.

Post by wagster
n.p. - I have only a little experience with Floodlights and was fairly
unimpressed - but it could just as easily have been the room or... me
(no, it can't possibly have been, never).

ROFL.

More likely the way they were set up. I have heard them sounding bad on
occasion and it has been due to mismatched amp gains, badly aimed
speakers, or an inexperienced system engineer. And likewise, *never* my
mix...

n.p.

[Tim S Kemp]

Post by wagster
I'm putting together a few small two- and four-speaker pa systems for
a client (hotel) who will be hiring them out to conferences. The last
system I supplied to them was a Dynacord Powermate1000/EV SX300 system
which continues to its duties well, so for these smaller systems I've
specified Powermate 600's and SX100's. Continuity and all that.
But... I've now been asked to supply Turbosound Impact 80.2's in place
of the SX100's. Has anyone used these? What are they like? On paper
difference?
Dispersion is similar - SX100's: 65° 80.2's: 60°. I expect that
being Turbo's they'll sound ok, but then again, I made that assumption
about the Floodlights...
In the Turbo's favour, they are less than half the weight.
Any opinions?

Neither are bad. If the main use is speech and BGM you'll have no problem
with either. Why not go to the TCS-Compact range though and get something
with a proper cabinet? 70hz-20khz. SX100s are a 12" cabinet, if there's
space for something bigger the TCS101c has better resoponse and sensitivity,
and a rotatable tweeter...

[Peter Larsen]

Post by wagster
But... I've now been asked to supply Turbosound Impact 80.2's in place
of the SX100's. Has anyone used these? What are they like? On paper
difference?

TXD 121's look more like it: (A&E datasheet)

" The system shall be of the two-way passive trapezoidal type
" consisting of one 12" (308mm) low frequency loudspeaker and
" one 1" (25mm) high frequency driver on a 70 degree vertical x 40
" degree horizontal high frequency horn.
"
" Performance specifications of a typical production unit shall
" meet or exceed the following: frequency response, measured with
" swept sine wave input, shall be flat within ±4dB from 60Hz to
" 20kHz.

" Nominal dispersion, at -6dB points, shall average 70 degrees
" horizontal x 40 degrees vertical. Nominal impedance shall be 8
" ohms. Power handling shall be 300 watts r.m.s., 600 watts program.
" Sensitivity, measured with 1 watt input at 1 metre distance on axis,
" mean averaged over stated bandwidth, shall be 97dB. Maximum SPL
" (peak) measured with music program at stated amplifier input
" shall be 128dB.
"
" Dimensions: 553mmH x 411mmW x 352mmD (21.8"H x 16.2"W x 13.9"D).
" Weight: 20kg (44lbs). The loudspeaker system shall be the
" Turbosound TXD-121. No other loudspeaker shall be acceptable unless
" submitted data from an independent test laboratory verify that the
" above combined performance / size specifications are equalled or
" exceeded

Post by wagster
Dispersion is similar - SX100's: 65° 80.2's: 60°. I expect that
being Turbo's they'll sound ok, but then again, I made that assumption
about the Floodlights...
In the Turbo's favour, they are less than half the weight.

If 93 dB sensitivity is ok for the use, then there is also the TDX 081.
It is - at a glance - flatter in response and starts its fall off at 100
Hz instead of 200 Hz. It will need less EQ and will thus be likely to
make do with half as much amplifier power in spite of having the same
sensitivity spec as the Impact 80.

Post by wagster
Any opinions?

Sensitivity is a strange beast, you also need to look at frequency
response, because it can be easy to obtain xxx dB at 1 kHz, but 200 Hz
is about the center of the ears loudness perception, and whatever that
is in xxx, ie. three digits, at 1 kHz, may well be in two digits at 200.
So the point I try to convey is that you should subtract the required
dB's of EQ, if EQ is required in a high power frequency area, from the
sensitivity, otherwise guesstimates of required amp max output easily go
astray from the real world.

Roll off below 200 Hz is acceptable for speech only (or for supermarket
wallpaper), but even then it will sound thin, and if they want to play
any canned or live gp sound or music, then supplementation with
something bass will be required. There is a much better chance of a rig
that starts the roll off at 100 Hz actually being able to do it all by
itself.

What really would be useful for speech projection with good horisontal
dispersion is the one they do not supply, ie. "TXD 182 d'Appolitto"
with 2 one 8 inch unit above the horn from the 12" model and one below
.... those guys with the ribbon high range element (I think George
Gleason retailed them for a while, not sure) has such a model.


Peter Larsen

[Eeyore]

Post by Peter Larsen
Sensitivity is a strange beast, you also need to look at frequency
response, because it can be easy to obtain xxx dB at 1 kHz, but 200 Hz
is about the center of the ears loudness perception,

Pardon ?

The ear is most sensitive between around 1 and 3 kHz IIRC.

Graham

[Peter Larsen]

Post by Eeyore

Post by Peter Larsen
Sensitivity is a strange beast, you also need to look at frequency
response, because it can be easy to obtain xxx dB at 1 kHz, but 200 Hz
is about the center of the ears loudness perception,

Pardon ?

Here is what you do:

1) more tea,

2) read it again,

Post by Eeyore
The ear is most sensitive between around 1 and 3 kHz IIRC.

I speak about how the brain perceives the loudness of the sound, "the
ears loudness perception" is a very different concept. Sound that lacks
the low range is not perceived as loud as it is.

Try turning off the bass unit in a two way, wait a few seconds, your
brain adjusts ear sensitivity to max because there is "no sound" and
your ears will start to physically hurt at a sound pressure level of
high range that was quite OK when the bass range was there. The x-over
frequency I experienced this with is 650 Hz.

Note also Phildo's description a few years ago of how to protect the
audience from major hearing damage and still give them a good
experience: quality subwoofers. Simply said: it is not loud if you can
not feel it with the body.

Post by Eeyore
Graham

Peter Larsen

[Kevin T]

Post by wagster
I'm putting together a few small two- and four-speaker pa systems for a
client (hotel) who will be hiring them out to conferences. The last
system I supplied to them was a Dynacord Powermate1000/EV SX300 system
which continues to its duties well, so for these smaller systems I've
specified Powermate 600's and SX100's. Continuity and all that.
But... I've now been asked to supply Turbosound Impact 80.2's in place
of the SX100's. Has anyone used these? What are they like? On paper
difference?

I've got lots of experience with SX300 and Powermate 600. For voice
this little system just shines. What is the customer seeking in the
Impact 80.2 that the sx100 lacks? smaller footprint? Maybe the SX80 .
My real concern is The powerstation 600 is already marginally
underpowered with 98 or 99db EV speakers. I bet the next request after
the Turbos would be a bigger amp :( Maybe stick with the Powermate
1000 ?

Kevin T

[wagster]

Thanks Kevin, it's 95% speech reinforcement so I think I'll get away
with the 600 so long as I use the EV's. They've got a 1000 already if
they need a bit of oomph.

Post by Kevin T
I've got lots of experience with SX300 and Powermate 600. For voice
this little system just shines. What is the customer seeking in the
Impact 80.2 that the sx100 lacks? smaller footprint? Maybe the SX80 .
My real concern is The powerstation 600 is already marginally
underpowered with 98 or 99db EV speakers. I bet the next request after
the Turbos would be a bigger amp :( Maybe stick with the Powermate
1000 ?
Kevin T