Discussion:
Behringer B1800X blown? Now what?
(too old to reply)
chowterhead
2005-07-30 18:00:26 UTC
Permalink
Hi I have a Behringer B1800X subwoofer. At our gig last night while setting
up the subwoofer didn't seem to put out any sound, and what sound it did was
really distorted. It sounded really bad. I'm assuming it's blown, but a)
is there a reliable way to tell other than "ears" and b) if it is blown can
someone recommend a good replacement speaker to use? We paid $260 for the
subwoofer so I don't want to be spending too much, but a nice solid
replacement speaker?

Also, has anyone ever replaced woofers in the B1800X? Anything I should be
aware of? (ie. soldering, installing, etc.)

thanks in advance!

David
TimPerry
2005-07-30 20:00:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by chowterhead
Hi I have a Behringer B1800X subwoofer. At our gig last night while setting
up the subwoofer didn't seem to put out any sound, and what sound it did was
really distorted. It sounded really bad. I'm assuming it's blown, but a)
is there a reliable way to tell other than "ears" and b) if it is blown can
someone recommend a good replacement speaker to use? We paid $260 for the
subwoofer so I don't want to be spending too much, but a nice solid
replacement speaker?
Also, has anyone ever replaced woofers in the B1800X? Anything I should be
aware of? (ie. soldering, installing, etc.)
thanks in advance!
David
try inspecting and/or bypassing the slide switch if nessessary.


use a 9 volt battery directly across the speaker terminals. you will hear a
"click" and see or feel the cone move in or out.
BOB URZ
2005-07-30 20:50:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by chowterhead
Post by chowterhead
Hi I have a Behringer B1800X subwoofer. At our gig last night while
setting
Post by chowterhead
up the subwoofer didn't seem to put out any sound, and what sound it did
was
Post by chowterhead
really distorted. It sounded really bad. I'm assuming it's blown, but a)
is there a reliable way to tell other than "ears" and b) if it is blown
can
Post by chowterhead
someone recommend a good replacement speaker to use? We paid $260 for the
subwoofer so I don't want to be spending too much, but a nice solid
replacement speaker?
A good pro die cast speaker would cost you that much and more.
You might look at eminence replacements if all else fails.
My first choice would be to get it reconed if its really bad.
Post by chowterhead
Post by chowterhead
Also, has anyone ever replaced woofers in the B1800X? Anything I should
be
Post by chowterhead
aware of? (ie. soldering, installing, etc.)
thanks in advance!
David
try inspecting and/or bypassing the slide switch if nessessary.
use a 9 volt battery directly across the speaker terminals. you will hear a
"click" and see or feel the cone move in or out.
If the speaker is distorted sounding, the voice coil still has continuity
and is moving the cone. Continuity alone does not guarantee a functional
speaker. if you have access to the front of the speaker, carefully and evenly
push the cone in and out with your hands. If you hear a scraping sound, the
coils warped/bent/rubbing and its toast.
then its recone or replacement time. You get what you pay for.

Bob


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Pooh Bear
2005-07-30 20:24:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by chowterhead
Hi I have a Behringer B1800X subwoofer. At our gig last night while setting
up the subwoofer didn't seem to put out any sound, and what sound it did was
really distorted. It sounded really bad. I'm assuming it's blown, but a)
is there a reliable way to tell other than "ears" and b) if it is blown can
someone recommend a good replacement speaker to use? We paid $260 for the
subwoofer so I don't want to be spending too much, but a nice solid
replacement speaker?
Also, has anyone ever replaced woofers in the B1800X? Anything I should be
aware of? (ie. soldering, installing, etc.)
Most low fequency cabinets are 'tuned' to match the speaker. Just substituting
any old speaker will likely yield poor results.

Graham
Todd H.
2005-07-30 21:04:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by chowterhead
Hi I have a Behringer B1800X subwoofer. At our gig last night while setting
up the subwoofer didn't seem to put out any sound, and what sound it did was
really distorted. It sounded really bad. I'm assuming it's blown, but a)
is there a reliable way to tell other than "ears" and b) if it is blown can
someone recommend a good replacement speaker to use? We paid $260 for the
subwoofer so I don't want to be spending too much, but a nice solid
replacement speaker?
Also, has anyone ever replaced woofers in the B1800X? Anything I should be
aware of? (ie. soldering, installing, etc.)
What you're hearing sounds consistent with a blown woofer.

Reconing the driver you have is one option. There are reconers
around, but I haven't had to look for one in a while as all my LF
drivers that I own are peavey black widows. I'm not sure what
reconing will set you back.

partsexpress.com is one source I know of for replacement drivers. One
look at the price will have you searching for a reconer perhaps.
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=3&ObjectGroup_ID=583&manufacturer=&sm=1&so=2

Is it possibly in warranty? Or does BEhringer have a driver
replacment/swap program of some sort. Jim may stumble upon this
thread and let us know.

Now how did it come to be blown is the question lingering on my mind,
in the spirit of preventing recurrence once you're back in business.
What sort of duty to you use it for ( e.g. rock band w/ drums and
bass? ) and how much power are you providing it (possibly
underpowering it?), and how big a room are you trying to fill with
what sort of music?

Best Regards,
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | "4 lines suffice."
chowterhead
2005-07-31 01:07:22 UTC
Permalink
I've used it with my rock band for the past two years without a problem. We
run it mono off of a QSC RM2450, so it's a decent match. We've never had a
problem with it, and there was nothing that seemed to happen that would have
blown it. Was working fine last gig a week ago, then hooked everything up
last night for a new gig and nada!

Can you replace the B1800X woofer with a Peavey Black Widow? 1801? That's
one option if it'll match up properly.

thx,
David
Post by Todd H.
Post by chowterhead
Hi I have a Behringer B1800X subwoofer. At our gig last night while setting
up the subwoofer didn't seem to put out any sound, and what sound it did was
really distorted. It sounded really bad. I'm assuming it's blown, but a)
is there a reliable way to tell other than "ears" and b) if it is blown can
someone recommend a good replacement speaker to use? We paid $260 for the
subwoofer so I don't want to be spending too much, but a nice solid
replacement speaker?
Also, has anyone ever replaced woofers in the B1800X? Anything I should be
aware of? (ie. soldering, installing, etc.)
What you're hearing sounds consistent with a blown woofer.
Reconing the driver you have is one option. There are reconers
around, but I haven't had to look for one in a while as all my LF
drivers that I own are peavey black widows. I'm not sure what
reconing will set you back.
partsexpress.com is one source I know of for replacement drivers. One
look at the price will have you searching for a reconer perhaps.
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=3&ObjectGroup_ID=583&manufacturer=&sm=1&so=2
Is it possibly in warranty? Or does BEhringer have a driver
replacment/swap program of some sort. Jim may stumble upon this
thread and let us know.
Now how did it come to be blown is the question lingering on my mind,
in the spirit of preventing recurrence once you're back in business.
What sort of duty to you use it for ( e.g. rock band w/ drums and
bass? ) and how much power are you providing it (possibly
underpowering it?), and how big a room are you trying to fill with
what sort of music?
Best Regards,
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | "4 lines suffice."
George Gleason
2005-07-31 03:14:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by chowterhead
I've used it with my rock band for the past two years without a
problem. We run it mono off of a QSC RM2450, so it's a decent match.
We've never had a problem with it, and there was nothing that seemed
to happen that would have blown it. Was working fine last gig a week
ago, then hooked everything up last night for a new gig and nada!
Can you replace the B1800X woofer with a Peavey Black Widow? 1801?
That's one option if it'll match up properly.
thx,
David
Post by Todd H.
Post by chowterhead
Hi I have a Behringer B1800X subwoofer. At our gig last night while setting
up the subwoofer didn't seem to put out any sound, and what sound it did was
really distorted. It sounded really bad. I'm assuming it's blown, but a)
is there a reliable way to tell other than "ears" and b) if it is blown can
someone recommend a good replacement speaker to use? We paid $260 for the
subwoofer so I don't want to be spending too much, but a nice solid
replacement speaker?
Also, has anyone ever replaced woofers in the B1800X? Anything I should be
aware of? (ie. soldering, installing, etc.)
What you're hearing sounds consistent with a blown woofer.
Reconing the driver you have is one option. There are reconers
around, but I haven't had to look for one in a while as all my LF
drivers that I own are peavey black widows. I'm not sure what
reconing will set you back.
partsexpress.com is one source I know of for replacement drivers. One
look at the price will have you searching for a reconer perhaps.
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=3&ObjectGrou
p_ID=583&manufacturer=&sm=1&so=2
Is it possibly in warranty? Or does BEhringer have a driver
replacment/swap program of some sort. Jim may stumble upon this
thread and let us know.
Now how did it come to be blown is the question lingering on my mind,
in the spirit of preventing recurrence once you're back in business.
What sort of duty to you use it for ( e.g. rock band w/ drums and
bass? ) and how much power are you providing it (possibly
underpowering it?), and how big a room are you trying to fill with
what sort of music?
Buy a new driver from behringer I will get you Chris Gomez's address he
will help you
I would suspect a hard drop causing a magnet shift(this is the primary
fail for 1801's as well)
as all your others are still working
once you own the new driver sent the blown one out for recone
while I haven't had to do this I am sure behringer has service centers in
place
George
chowterhead
2005-07-31 23:26:28 UTC
Permalink
George,

I'd appreciate it. Who is Chris Gomez btw? I'm assuming a Behringer rep?

thanks,
David
Post by George Gleason
Post by chowterhead
I've used it with my rock band for the past two years without a
problem. We run it mono off of a QSC RM2450, so it's a decent match.
We've never had a problem with it, and there was nothing that seemed
to happen that would have blown it. Was working fine last gig a week
ago, then hooked everything up last night for a new gig and nada!
Can you replace the B1800X woofer with a Peavey Black Widow? 1801?
That's one option if it'll match up properly.
thx,
David
Post by Todd H.
Post by chowterhead
Hi I have a Behringer B1800X subwoofer. At our gig last night while setting
up the subwoofer didn't seem to put out any sound, and what sound it did was
really distorted. It sounded really bad. I'm assuming it's blown, but a)
is there a reliable way to tell other than "ears" and b) if it is blown can
someone recommend a good replacement speaker to use? We paid $260 for the
subwoofer so I don't want to be spending too much, but a nice solid
replacement speaker?
Also, has anyone ever replaced woofers in the B1800X? Anything I should be
aware of? (ie. soldering, installing, etc.)
What you're hearing sounds consistent with a blown woofer.
Reconing the driver you have is one option. There are reconers
around, but I haven't had to look for one in a while as all my LF
drivers that I own are peavey black widows. I'm not sure what
reconing will set you back.
partsexpress.com is one source I know of for replacement drivers. One
look at the price will have you searching for a reconer perhaps.
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=3&ObjectGrou
p_ID=583&manufacturer=&sm=1&so=2
Is it possibly in warranty? Or does BEhringer have a driver
replacment/swap program of some sort. Jim may stumble upon this
thread and let us know.
Now how did it come to be blown is the question lingering on my mind,
in the spirit of preventing recurrence once you're back in business.
What sort of duty to you use it for ( e.g. rock band w/ drums and
bass? ) and how much power are you providing it (possibly
underpowering it?), and how big a room are you trying to fill with
what sort of music?
Buy a new driver from behringer I will get you Chris Gomez's address he
will help you
I would suspect a hard drop causing a magnet shift(this is the primary
fail for 1801's as well)
as all your others are still working
once you own the new driver sent the blown one out for recone
while I haven't had to do this I am sure behringer has service centers in
place
George
Todd H.
2005-08-01 01:45:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by chowterhead
George,
I'd appreciate it. Who is Chris Gomez btw? I'm assuming a
Behringer rep?
Yeah.
George Gleason
2005-08-01 02:05:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by chowterhead
George,
I'd appreciate it. Who is Chris Gomez btw? I'm assuming a Behringer rep?
thanks,
David
Here you go
Chris (and Jim Savery) are great people who are working hard at making
Behringer one of the best supported brands in the pro audio community

He can help
Post by chowterhead
Chris Gomez
Technical Support Administrator
BEHRINGER USA Inc.
Tel: +1 425 672 0816 ext.139
Fax: +1 425 673 7647
Email: ***@behringer.com
www.behringer.com
chowterhead
2005-08-03 03:28:53 UTC
Permalink
George,

Thanks for the info! I'll call them.

David
Post by George Gleason
Post by chowterhead
George,
I'd appreciate it. Who is Chris Gomez btw? I'm assuming a Behringer rep?
thanks,
David
Here you go
Chris (and Jim Savery) are great people who are working hard at making
Behringer one of the best supported brands in the pro audio community
He can help
Post by chowterhead
Chris Gomez
Technical Support Administrator
BEHRINGER USA Inc.
Tel: +1 425 672 0816 ext.139
Fax: +1 425 673 7647
www.behringer.com
RockSoundman
2005-07-31 13:10:53 UTC
Permalink
Not trying to insult your intelligence but are you sure the input
cable is good? Cable connections and wire can fail in a way that
will result in poor sound quality.

Test the subwoofer on a bench with a known good cable and input
source.

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 11:00:26 -0700, "chowterhead"
Post by chowterhead
Hi I have a Behringer B1800X subwoofer. At our gig last night while setting
up the subwoofer didn't seem to put out any sound, and what sound it did was
really distorted. It sounded really bad. I'm assuming it's blown, but a)
is there a reliable way to tell other than "ears" and b) if it is blown can
someone recommend a good replacement speaker to use? We paid $260 for the
subwoofer so I don't want to be spending too much, but a nice solid
replacement speaker?
Also, has anyone ever replaced woofers in the B1800X? Anything I should be
aware of? (ie. soldering, installing, etc.)
thanks in advance!
David
Pete Kerezman
2005-07-31 14:04:01 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 11:00:26 -0700, "chowterhead"
Post by chowterhead
Hi I have a Behringer B1800X subwoofer. At our gig last night while setting
up the subwoofer didn't seem to put out any sound, and what sound it did was
really distorted. It sounded really bad. I'm assuming it's blown, but a)
is there a reliable way to tell other than "ears" and b) if it is blown can
someone recommend a good replacement speaker to use? We paid $260 for the
subwoofer so I don't want to be spending too much, but a nice solid
replacement speaker?
Also, has anyone ever replaced woofers in the B1800X? Anything I should be
aware of? (ie. soldering, installing, etc.)
Are you running it through the built-in crossover or is it active
biamped? Either way, the first thing I'd try is working around the
factory wiring and connecting it directly to a known good amp. The
problem could be in the x-over, the active/passive selector switch, or
some other facet of the factory wiring.

I'll probably just slap a Carvin or a low-end Eminence 18" in mine
if it ever blows, and wire it direct to a neutrik. The cab is almost
decent and although I don't use it as a "real" subwoofer it does
provide the lows for my 1x12 mains. I run it active, x-over at 145hz,
amp low-cut at 30hz. Makes the system lots cleaner and much more
detailed sounding.

Texas Pete
chowterhead
2005-07-31 23:25:31 UTC
Permalink
I run it off of a Drive Rack PA, so and the crossover seems to be working
fine. Again, we "hear" noise coming out of it, but it's heavily distorted
which makes me think it's blown. I doubt it's the speakon cable but will
test to be sure.
Post by RockSoundman
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 11:00:26 -0700, "chowterhead"
Post by chowterhead
Hi I have a Behringer B1800X subwoofer. At our gig last night while setting
up the subwoofer didn't seem to put out any sound, and what sound it did was
really distorted. It sounded really bad. I'm assuming it's blown, but a)
is there a reliable way to tell other than "ears" and b) if it is blown can
someone recommend a good replacement speaker to use? We paid $260 for the
subwoofer so I don't want to be spending too much, but a nice solid
replacement speaker?
Also, has anyone ever replaced woofers in the B1800X? Anything I should be
aware of? (ie. soldering, installing, etc.)
Are you running it through the built-in crossover or is it active
biamped? Either way, the first thing I'd try is working around the
factory wiring and connecting it directly to a known good amp. The
problem could be in the x-over, the active/passive selector switch, or
some other facet of the factory wiring.
I'll probably just slap a Carvin or a low-end Eminence 18" in mine
if it ever blows, and wire it direct to a neutrik. The cab is almost
decent and although I don't use it as a "real" subwoofer it does
provide the lows for my 1x12 mains. I run it active, x-over at 145hz,
amp low-cut at 30hz. Makes the system lots cleaner and much more
detailed sounding.
Texas Pete
rich
2005-08-01 18:07:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by chowterhead
I run it off of a Drive Rack PA, so and the crossover seems to be working
fine. Again, we "hear" noise coming out of it, but it's heavily distorted
which makes me think it's blown. I doubt it's the speakon cable but will
test to be sure.
Post by RockSoundman
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 11:00:26 -0700, "chowterhead"
Post by chowterhead
Hi I have a Behringer B1800X subwoofer. At our gig last night while setting
up the subwoofer didn't seem to put out any sound, and what sound it did was
really distorted. It sounded really bad. I'm assuming it's blown, but a)
is there a reliable way to tell other than "ears" and b) if it is blown can
someone recommend a good replacement speaker to use? We paid $260 for the
subwoofer so I don't want to be spending too much, but a nice solid
replacement speaker?
Also, has anyone ever replaced woofers in the B1800X? Anything I should be
aware of? (ie. soldering, installing, etc.)
Are you running it through the built-in crossover or is it active
biamped? Either way, the first thing I'd try is working around the
factory wiring and connecting it directly to a known good amp. The
problem could be in the x-over, the active/passive selector switch, or
some other facet of the factory wiring.
I'll probably just slap a Carvin or a low-end Eminence 18" in mine
if it ever blows, and wire it direct to a neutrik. The cab is almost
decent and although I don't use it as a "real" subwoofer it does
provide the lows for my 1x12 mains. I run it active, x-over at 145hz,
amp low-cut at 30hz. Makes the system lots cleaner and much more
detailed sounding.
Texas Pete
have you checked the amp? try a different amp on it, the distortion may
be a blown mosfet...
Phil Allison
2005-08-02 01:56:10 UTC
Permalink
"rich"
Post by chowterhead
I run it off of a Drive Rack PA, so and the crossover seems to be working
fine. Again, we "hear" noise coming out of it, but it's heavily
distorted which makes me think it's blown. I doubt it's the speakon
cable but will test to be sure.
have you checked the amp? try a different amp on it, the distortion may be
a blown mosfet...
** Its a QSC "...... run it mono off of a QSC RM2450, so it's a decent
match"

- so output devices are bi-polar.

Still, the amp needs to be checked.



............ Phil
Andre Ludewig
2005-08-05 11:12:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Allison
** Its a QSC "...... run it mono off of a QSC RM2450, so it's a decent
match"
The 2450 deliveres 1200 W @ 8 Ohms in (bridged) mono - is it still a decent
match?
Phil Allison
2005-08-05 13:45:49 UTC
Permalink
"Andre Ludewig" <
Post by chowterhead
Post by Phil Allison
** Its a QSC "...... run it mono off of a QSC RM2450, so it's a
decent
Post by Phil Allison
match"
match?
** ROTFL.....

Context is a foreign language to some.





........... Phil
Andre Ludewig
2005-08-05 18:41:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Allison
Post by Andre Ludewig
match?
** ROTFL.....
Context is a foreign language to some.
........... Phil
O.k., I'll try to explain using some more words
...sorry for my pure english b.t.w. ;-)

Back to the topic:
In my opinion the QSX RMX 2450 in a mono (bridged) mode is pretty to much
signal for the E1800X! The power rating of the speaker witch is in the
cabinet has only 400 W RMS. So the question is: paralleled or bridged
mono??? Paralleled = fine, but underpowered ... bridged=too much!
A very good match for the e1800x would be the RMX 1450 (bridged 700W @
8Ohms).
..or cheaper: Uli's EP 1500 bridged

A different story would be the E1800X Pro (not out yet). This one can be
driven by a RMX 2450 (carefully!)...


--- André Ludewig
chowterhead
2005-08-06 02:57:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andre Ludewig
Post by Phil Allison
Post by Andre Ludewig
match?
** ROTFL.....
Context is a foreign language to some.
........... Phil
O.k., I'll try to explain using some more words
...sorry for my pure english b.t.w. ;-)
In my opinion the QSX RMX 2450 in a mono (bridged) mode is pretty to much
signal for the E1800X! The power rating of the speaker witch is in the
cabinet has only 400 W RMS. So the question is: paralleled or bridged
mono??? Paralleled = fine, but underpowered ... bridged=too much!
8Ohms).
..or cheaper: Uli's EP 1500 bridged
A different story would be the E1800X Pro (not out yet). This one can be
driven by a RMX 2450 (carefully!)...
--- André Ludewig
We've been running it off a single channel (non-bridged). I've run it that
way for over 2 years without a problem.
Phildo
2005-08-06 12:34:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by chowterhead
We've been running it off a single channel (non-bridged). I've run it
that way for over 2 years without a problem.
Just because you do something and think it works does not make it the right
thing to do.

You could be drastically shortening the life of your gear through
underpowering.

Phildo
Chris Richmond - MD6-FDC ~
2005-08-06 15:47:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phildo
Just because you do something and think it works does not make it the right
thing to do.
You could be drastically shortening the life of your gear through
underpowering.
(I think I know this answer) What's so bad about underpowering a
speaker? Under what conditions is this bad?

What if the OP isn't operating under these conditions? Is it
still a problem?

Chris
--
Chris Richmond | I don't speak for Intel & vise versa
Rupert
2005-08-06 16:37:54 UTC
Permalink
As long as there is nothing more then mild clipping for a low frequency
driver, it can be underpowered. If clipping is heavy and the crest
factor is small, you can blow the driver if the rms rating of the
driver is exceeded by the low crest factor of the amp's output. If the
amp is small enough that it won't exceed the long term rms rating of
the speaker even when it's putting out a a nearly square wave, you can
clip it all day long and not have an issue.

Rupert
George Gleason
2005-08-06 16:51:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Richmond - MD6-FDC ~
Post by Phildo
Just because you do something and think it works does not make it the
right thing to do.
You could be drastically shortening the life of your gear through
underpowering.
(I think I know this answer) What's so bad about underpowering a
speaker? Under what conditions is this bad?
What if the OP isn't operating under these conditions? Is it
still a problem?
Chris
Time to clearify this "rule of thumb"
you will NEVER damage a speaker by running it with less than its rated
long term power handeking
you can take a speaker that is "honestly" rated at 200 watts and run
100watts of square wave into it until the cows come home
it will not be damaged
the problem is the footloose and fancy free rateing are not truely
representive of a speakers abilities
power rateing (i am sure some one can outline the "official" test that
should be ised to determine a speakers power rateing
but I generally go by continious pink noise able to be tolerated for 4
hours without damage
a power rateing is simply a number that should indicate the ability of
the motor to withstand heating before damage

the problem with under powering a speaker is that you tend to push
underpowered amps deep into clipping
at that point a 200 watt amp might easily be putting out loads of 400
watt signal
you 200 watt speaker no longer is seeing 200 watts with a occasional
peakof 400 but almost a steady 400 watts
so you see the 200 watt speaker is being asked to shed 400 watts of heat
this it can not do
run the same 200 watt amp without clipping and you will never burn out
this 200 watt speaker
AS LONG AS BOTH ARE RATED RESPONSIBLY
the problem really lies in speakers that can only safely shed 100 watts
of power(heating) being sold as 400 watt drivers
so you hook a 200 watt amp to it thinking your underpowering it
but in fact the speakers is not able to live up to the claims of its
rateing
this is one reason to buy the best speakers you can
their real world performance is much closer to the ad departments fantasy
rateing numbers
GEorge
Phildo
2005-08-06 22:36:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Richmond - MD6-FDC ~
Post by Phildo
Just because you do something and think it works does not make it the right
thing to do.
You could be drastically shortening the life of your gear through
underpowering.
(I think I know this answer) What's so bad about underpowering a
speaker? Under what conditions is this bad?
If you are pushing the amp to the point of clipping then you are damaging
the driver.
Post by Chris Richmond - MD6-FDC ~
What if the OP isn't operating under these conditions? Is it
still a problem?
Not really.

Phildo
Phil Allison
2005-08-07 00:01:02 UTC
Permalink
"Phildo"
Post by Phildo
If you are pushing the amp to the point of clipping then you are damaging
the driver.
** What asinine bullshit.






.......... Phil
George Gleason
2005-08-07 00:41:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phildo
Post by Chris Richmond - MD6-FDC ~
Post by Phildo
Just because you do something and think it works does not make it the right
thing to do.
You could be drastically shortening the life of your gear through
underpowering.
(I think I know this answer) What's so bad about underpowering a
speaker? Under what conditions is this bad?
If you are pushing the amp to the point of clipping then you are
damaging the driver.
clipping in of itself will not damage a driver
it must first exceed the heat sheading ability of the motor structure
before damage will occour
clip a 1/2 watt music on hold amp into a evx 18 till the statue of liberty
kicks a extra point through the brookyln bridge, the speaker will not be
damaged

george
George Gleason
2005-08-07 00:55:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Gleason
Post by Phildo
Post by Chris Richmond - MD6-FDC ~
Post by Phildo
Just because you do something and think it works does not make it the right
thing to do.
You could be drastically shortening the life of your gear through
underpowering.
(I think I know this answer) What's so bad about underpowering a
speaker? Under what conditions is this bad?
If you are pushing the amp to the point of clipping then you are
damaging the driver.
clipping in of itself will not damage a driver
it must first exceed the heat sheading ability of the motor structure
before damage will occour
clip a 1/2 watt music on hold amp into a evx 18 till the statue of
liberty kicks a extra point through the brookyln bridge, the speaker
will not be damaged
george
of course a qsc rmx 2450 driven to clipping is powerful enough to damage
most any driver
George
chowterhead
2005-08-07 17:03:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Gleason
Post by George Gleason
Post by Phildo
Post by Chris Richmond - MD6-FDC ~
Post by Phildo
Just because you do something and think it works does not make it the right
thing to do.
You could be drastically shortening the life of your gear through
underpowering.
(I think I know this answer) What's so bad about underpowering a
speaker? Under what conditions is this bad?
If you are pushing the amp to the point of clipping then you are
damaging the driver.
clipping in of itself will not damage a driver
it must first exceed the heat sheading ability of the motor structure
before damage will occour
clip a 1/2 watt music on hold amp into a evx 18 till the statue of
liberty kicks a extra point through the brookyln bridge, the speaker
will not be damaged
george
of course a qsc rmx 2450 driven to clipping is powerful enough to damage
most any driver
George
My understanding is that a single channel of a QSC RMX 2450 (which is what
we use) is a good match with the Behringer B1800X subwoofer. Additionally,
we ran this using a Driverack PA. I don't believe we ever ran it where it
was clipping, seemed like we had a lot of headroom. I'm guessing (given
some members of my band's lack of respect for being delicate with equipment)
that it just got bumped/jostled too much.
Rupert
2005-08-07 19:58:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by chowterhead
My understanding is that a single channel of a QSC RMX 2450 (which is what
we use) is a good match with the Behringer B1800X subwoofer. Additionally,
we ran this using a Driverack PA. I don't believe we ever ran it where it
was clipping, seemed like we had a lot of headroom. I'm guessing (given
some members of my band's lack of respect for being delicate with equipment)
that it just got bumped/jostled too much.
Has anyone taken a good look at the specs on this box? Here they are
from the Uli site:

B1800X
Subwoofer (18")
Frequency response 40 Hz - 300 Hz (-10 dB)
Power rating(1) (RMS) 800 W
Power rating (Peak Program) 1600 W
Impedance 8 O
Sound pressure level2 (1 W @ 1 m) 100 dB (Half Space)

(1) Average value over bandwidth of 50 Hz - 5 kHz (multi-way systems)
and 40 Hz - 250 Hz (subwoofer) according to IEC 268-5.

These are awfully impressive specs for such a cheap box, with a
calculated peak SPL of ~131 dB not including power compression. I'm not
buying it. But anyhow, in theory, it should be powered with an amp that
can deliver in the neighborhood of 1600 watts into an 8 ohm load. So in
theory, a QSC RMX2450 should be fine running bridge mode into one (1500
watts continuous output EIA 1KHz into 8 ohms). I hate that they only
rate that amp on the web page at 1KHz, as most power amps don't put out
anywhere near their spec'd power at the lower end of their frequency
band into reactive loads. Regardless, it should not be too much power.
It should be noted, however, that many subs cannot take their rated
power in the lowest octave(s) of their operating range. This box has
10dB down point at 40Hz, not very good. So that means it doesn't have
any substantial output probably below 50Hz. Not much of a "sub" in my
opinion. But regardless, if you're driving this thing with out a high
pass filter say around 45-50Hz, you're asking for trouble, especially
if you have an amp good at delivering power in the low frequency band
into reactive loads and you're pushing frequencies below the tuning of
the box so the driver is unloading. This could be what killed the
driver. Or, it could simply be a mechanical defect that finally came to
fruition. For the future, I would make sure you're running a proper
high pass for it on your
DriveRack. If you've only been using one side of the RMX2450 to power
it, you're technically under-powering it on paper. At full clip, you
can exceed the RMS rating of the driver by a couple hundred watts and
cook it, but it sounds like you've avoided doing that.

In conclusion, I'll just say you shouldn't expect too much from box
like this, regardless of what the specs say. Uli might make some cool
processing stuff for the money, but the boxes have been less then
stellar IMO. Either get the box repaired, throw it away and get another
as it's super cheap as far as speakers go (re-coning some high end
drivers is not much less), or buy something better.

Rupert
Pooh Bear
2005-08-07 20:24:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rupert
Post by chowterhead
My understanding is that a single channel of a QSC RMX 2450 (which is what
we use) is a good match with the Behringer B1800X subwoofer. Additionally,
we ran this using a Driverack PA. I don't believe we ever ran it where it
was clipping, seemed like we had a lot of headroom. I'm guessing (given
some members of my band's lack of respect for being delicate with equipment)
that it just got bumped/jostled too much.
Has anyone taken a good look at the specs on this box? Here they are
B1800X
Subwoofer (18")
Frequency response 40 Hz - 300 Hz (-10 dB)
Power rating(1) (RMS) 800 W
Power rating (Peak Program) 1600 W
Impedance 8 O
(1) Average value over bandwidth of 50 Hz - 5 kHz (multi-way systems)
and 40 Hz - 250 Hz (subwoofer) according to IEC 268-5.
These are awfully impressive specs for such a cheap box, with a
calculated peak SPL of ~131 dB not including power compression. I'm not
buying it. But anyhow, in theory, it should be powered with an amp that
can deliver in the neighborhood of 1600 watts into an 8 ohm load.
Not as I read it. It's 400W rms - so a good amp match would be an 800W into 8 ohm
amp.

Sadly the 2450 doesn't deliver that - either single ch or bridged.

Graham
Rupert
2005-08-07 20:50:26 UTC
Permalink
I just found the discrepancy. I'm looking at the specs for the new
B1800X PRO, which is what's showing on the current site. The specs for
the older B1800X are only in the support section. 400 watts rms seems
to be a reasonable rating for a box like that. The new "Pro" version
seems a bit out of line to me as far as the specs go for a sub with an
MSRP of $399 USD. I'll be curious to see how it performs when it ships.

Rupert
Phil Allison
2005-08-08 01:07:12 UTC
Permalink
"Rupert"
Post by Rupert
These are awfully impressive specs for such a cheap box, with a
calculated peak SPL of ~131 dB not including power compression.
** Compression, both thermal and magnetic, can amount to 7 or 8 dB at full
rated power into a high powered driver.
Post by Rupert
So in
theory, a QSC RMX2450 should be fine running bridge mode into one (1500
watts continuous output EIA 1KHz into 8 ohms). I hate that they only
rate that amp on the web page at 1KHz, as most power amps don't put out
anywhere near their spec'd power at the lower end of their frequency
band into reactive loads.
** Dunno where you got this wrong idea from.

A power amp may lose about 1 dB of max power at 30 Hz compared to 1kHz, due
to increased PSU ripple.

OTOH, speakers run out of cone excursion VERY rapidly as the frequency gets
lower.

It takes 900 TIMES more cone excursion at 30 Hz than 1kHz to produce
the same SPL in air !!!!




........... Phil
Arny Krueger
2005-08-08 10:31:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Allison
"Rupert"
Post by Rupert
These are awfully impressive specs for such a cheap box,
with a calculated peak SPL of ~131 dB not including
power compression.
** Compression, both thermal and magnetic, can amount to
7 or 8 dB at full rated power into a high powered driver.
Good point Phil, and this is a place where even most of the
higher priced brands don't want to go.

Note all the speakers out there for which the vendors
specify "calculated" maximum SPLs. Presumably the
calculation is based on maximum power times maximum
efficiency. In the real world, efficiency goes down when
power goes up past a certain point, a point that is well
below the maximum.
Post by Phil Allison
Post by Rupert
So in
theory, a QSC RMX2450 should be fine running bridge mode
into one (1500 watts continuous output EIA 1KHz into 8
ohms). I hate that they only rate that amp on the web
page at 1KHz, as most power amps don't put out anywhere
near their spec'd power at the lower end of their
frequency band into reactive loads.
** Dunno where you got this wrong idea from.
Good question. IME most modern power amps do well with
reactive loads, and do well at the lower end of their
frequency band. They basically meet specs. Now the specs
themselves might be stated in a misleading way, but that's a
different problem.
Post by Phil Allison
A power amp may lose about 1 dB of max power at 30 Hz
compared to 1kHz, due to increased PSU ripple.
The maximum power output of a power amp generally does go
down at low frequencies, but that's generally reflected in
the specs. IOW most power amps put out a whole lot more than
rated power at middle frequencies.
Post by Phil Allison
OTOH, speakers run out of cone excursion VERY rapidly as
the frequency gets lower.
This would be very likely to be the far stronger effect.
Post by Phil Allison
It takes 900 TIMES more cone excursion at 30 Hz than
1kHz to produce the same SPL in air !!!!
It still costs a lot of money to deliver good Xmax.
Delivering good Xmax *and* high efficiency is even more
difficult and costly.
Rupert
2005-08-08 17:14:20 UTC
Permalink
You're right, 1dB is negligible. For some reason I had gotten it into
my head that there was a greater amount of fall off. I guess the real
differences show up when you're pushing amps to their limits into low
impedance loads, especially for subs. I've noticed some pretty profound
differences between cheap amps and the more expensive ones when pushing
a 4 ohm load in bridge mode up to the limit of the amp. I believe you
had mentioned in a previous post about certain amps being able to
deliver current much better near the 0 volt swing. Could this be the
difference I'm referring to? Some amps just seem to "run out of gas"
under VLF demands and the bottom of their impedance capabilities
compared to other.

Thanks,
Rupert
Phil Allison
2005-08-09 02:12:56 UTC
Permalink
"Rupert"
Post by Rupert
You're right, 1dB is negligible. For some reason I had gotten it into
my head that there was a greater amount of fall off. I guess the real
differences show up when you're pushing amps to their limits into low
impedance loads, especially for subs. I've noticed some pretty profound
differences between cheap amps and the more expensive ones when pushing
a 4 ohm load in bridge mode up to the limit of the amp. I believe you
had mentioned in a previous post about certain amps being able to
deliver current much better near the 0 volt swing. Could this be the
difference I'm referring to? Some amps just seem to "run out of gas"
under VLF demands and the bottom of their impedance capabilities
compared to other.
** Are you addressing me - about something I posted?

Or Arny about something he posted?



............ Phil
Rupert
2005-08-09 04:06:13 UTC
Permalink
Something you, Phil, posted a while back I believe, about how some amps
don't do very well delivering out of phase current in relation to
voltage. What exactly happens inside the amp when this is true and how
might it affect real world performance?

Thanks,
Rupert
Phil Allison
2005-08-09 04:20:36 UTC
Permalink
"Rupert"


** Kindly do NOT clear the screen prior to creating a post.

Doing that removes all trace of which poster you are adressing or about
what.
Post by Rupert
Something you, Phil, posted a while back I believe, about how some amps
don't do very well delivering out of phase current in relation to
voltage. What exactly happens inside the amp when this is true and how
might it affect real world performance?
See:

http://sound.westhost.com/vi.htm




............ Phil
Rupert
2005-08-09 18:19:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Allison
"Rupert"
Post by Rupert
Something you, Phil, posted a while back I believe, about how some amps
don't do very well delivering out of phase current in relation to
voltage. What exactly happens inside the amp when this is true and how
might it affect real world performance?
http://sound.westhost.com/vi.htm
............ Phil
Thanks for the good read Phil. I was wondering if you could expound on
what models of amplifier did well verses not so well in your testing,
or if there tended to be certain topologies of PSU or output stage
design that contributed to better behavior. I guess I'm trying to
figure out what to steer clear of in general. I've had what seems to be
very good performance for sub woofer applications at very low
frequencies with the older Crest Audio Professional series amplifiers.
IOW, these amps seem to perform better then other quality amps with
higher output ratings used with certain subs. These difference seem to
narrow when raising the high pass point, so it seems to be a low
frequency issue. I.E. the Crest seems to drive below 30Hz better then
other big name amps I've tried, especially for transients like kick
drum. This is, of course, pushing the amp right to the edge of
clipping, and low impedance loading (4 ohms bridge). I'd really like
to know the mechanism that could be the determining factor. The Crest
is old school design and very heavy. A lot of the new light weight
switch mode PSU amps don't seem to pack the same punch for that
particular amp. This includes the newer Crest that are replacing the
old ones, and are much lighter due to moving to multi-rail PSU's. I
realize there are a lot of variables that come into play, so there is
probably not a simple answer, but any insight is appreciated.

Rupert
George Gleason
2005-08-09 18:45:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rupert
Post by Phil Allison
"Rupert"
Post by Rupert
Something you, Phil, posted a while back I believe, about how some
amps don't do very well delivering out of phase current in relation
to voltage. What exactly happens inside the amp when this is true
and how might it affect real world performance?
http://sound.westhost.com/vi.htm
............ Phil
Thanks for the good read Phil. I was wondering if you could expound on
what models of amplifier did well verses not so well in your testing,
or if there tended to be certain topologies of PSU or output stage
design that contributed to better behavior. I guess I'm trying to
figure out what to steer clear of in general. I've had what seems to
be very good performance for sub woofer applications at very low
frequencies with the older Crest Audio Professional series amplifiers.
IOW, these amps seem to perform better then other quality amps with
higher output ratings used with certain subs. These difference seem to
narrow when raising the high pass point, so it seems to be a low
frequency issue. I.E. the Crest seems to drive below 30Hz better then
other big name amps I've tried, especially for transients like kick
drum. This is, of course, pushing the amp right to the edge of
clipping, and low impedance loading (4 ohms bridge). I'd really like
to know the mechanism that could be the determining factor. The Crest
is old school design and very heavy. A lot of the new light weight
switch mode PSU amps don't seem to pack the same punch for that
particular amp. This includes the newer Crest that are replacing the
old ones, and are much lighter due to moving to multi-rail PSU's. I
realize there are a lot of variables that come into play, so there is
probably not a simple answer, but any insight is appreciated.
Rupert
My experiance is that when your in a challenging enviroment a switching
PS is the ONLY way to go
My powersofts run easily dowm to 90 volts, my crests would fart and sound
like shit if there was a brown out
the switchers just kept right on pumping

whrn buying pro level amps I would not consider a BIG IRON design for any
application any more
though if I need CHEAP then Big Iron is fine
george
Rupert
2005-08-09 20:20:28 UTC
Permalink
Thanks George, I appreciate your POV. With the particular subs I use
though, the old Crest is still the best sounding/performing amp.
Apparently, just about every older and newer amp out there has been
tested by the manufacturer of these subs, and nothing has been able to
match the performance of the Crest. This list includes QSC PL series,
Lab Grupen, Crown VZ and I-Tech, PowerSoft, Chevin, Crest Pro 200
series, Camco Vortex, etc. I realize this performance vs. amp issue may
only apply to these subs, which are tuned down to 25Hz and loaded with
2 either EVX-180B or TAD 1801 drivers. But the Crest 7001 is all that
is required to drive 4 of them to full output. Other amps with double
the power output capability are required to match the performance of
the 7001, but don't sound as good. The manufacturer has been
desperately looking for a comparable replacement for the now
discontinued 7001 at any price and have been disappointed thus far. On
paper, the 7001 output looks sorely lacking, but it really kicks, has
no problem getting the drivers to full excursion and sounds great doing
it. It just goes to show you that what's listed in the specs doesn't
always mean much in the real world. The amp "appears" to put out more
power for very short term transients that exceed the rated power then
the others tested thus far. But I definitely don't have the facilities
to test these observations by the manufacturer, so I can't say for
sure. I only seek possible explanations. Believe you me, I'd much
rather tote a 20 lb. amp rather then a 55 lb. amp for subs. The 8001's
I use for the LF drivers on my tops are real monsters. At least they're
not 9001 or 10001's, just to be optimistic :-)

Rupert
George Gleason
2005-08-09 21:44:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rupert
Thanks George, I appreciate your POV. With the particular subs I use
though, the old Crest is still the best sounding/performing amp.
I am sure that may very well be the case as long as you have a constant
solid ac supply
you get into a service that is only supplying 100 volts a leg BEFORE any
load
or where you can not supply full rated amperage
you will find a significant diffrence in the switchers favor

having gone through the crests, crowns , and the McIntoshs
I can say with the EAW bh800/ or Meyer 650's that my first choice would be
a switcher
currently my switchers are Powerlights(original series) and powersofts
I dumped all my crests because they were not reliable(8002's, 7001's,7301,
and a boat load of FA crap, even 4 qsc powerlight 4.0's failed, but the
1.8's keep slamming hard regardless of my abuse)

the subs I use and have access to are rcf loaded
I believe the 851's but I would really have to checx\k because it seems
last time I bought drivers I got them from EAW and they did not carry the
rcf part #
Rupert
2005-08-09 22:00:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Gleason
Post by Rupert
Thanks George, I appreciate your POV. With the particular subs I use
though, the old Crest is still the best sounding/performing amp.
I am sure that may very well be the case as long as you have a constant
solid ac supply
you get into a service that is only supplying 100 volts a leg BEFORE any
load
or where you can not supply full rated amperage
you will find a significant diffrence in the switchers favor
I agree that the Crest Pro series are power pigs. The inrush current is
very hefty too. I tried using the Furman ACD-100 as an amp rack
distros, and the 7001 tripped the 20A breakers on power up every time.
You could turn on the amp with the breaker, but not the amp with it's
own power switch. I grilled Furman about it, as they claim their distro
could handle high inrush. They're advice was to upgrade the breakers to
either a longer delay 20A breaker or the 30 amp, at my expense of
course. So, I dumped those and got Motion Labs panels. For most of my
shows, I have a dedicated distro tied into the service entrance or a
solid sub panel, so I don't usually have a sag problem. Fortunately, I
haven't had to deal with situations with less then 108 vac (usually
much better then that), so it's been ok.

Rupert
George Gleason
2005-08-09 22:22:12 UTC
Permalink
For most of my
Post by Rupert
shows, I have a dedicated distro tied into the service entrance or a
solid sub panel, so I don't usually have a sag problem. Fortunately, I
haven't had to deal with situations with less then 108 vac (usually
much better then that), so it's been ok.
Rupert
I live next to 3 or 4 nuke plants you would think I would be able to get
solid power
BUTTTTTT NOOOOOO
the best power I get is from generators

at two of my stages last weekend the tie in to my distro was suppling
97/leg at one(three phase) and 103/leg single phase

and this was measured at the TIE IN point!!!!

George
Rupert
2005-08-11 04:49:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rupert
For most of my
Post by Rupert
shows, I have a dedicated distro tied into the service entrance or a
solid sub panel, so I don't usually have a sag problem. Fortunately, I
haven't had to deal with situations with less then 108 vac (usually
much better then that), so it's been ok.
Rupert
I live next to 3 or 4 nuke plants you would think I would be able to get
solid power
BUTTTTTT NOOOOOO
the best power I get is from generators
at two of my stages last weekend the tie in to my distro was suppling
97/leg at one(three phase) and 103/leg single phase
and this was measured at the TIE IN point!!!!
George
Sound like the wrong transformer is being used on the pole, or they
added a lot more services to the existing HV lines without changing to
a proper transformer for prior customers. Either way, it's bad news.

Rupert
Arny Krueger
2005-08-09 11:43:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rupert
Something you, Phil, posted a while back I believe, about
how some amps don't do very well delivering out of phase
current in relation to voltage. What exactly happens
inside the amp when this is true and how might it affect
real world performance?
The shorter answer is

When an amp delivers voltage and current in-phase, maximum
current is delivered at maximum output voltage.

When the amp is delivering the maximum output voltage into a
resistor, the voltage dropped across the output transistors
is at a minimum. Therefore, maximum current is delivered
when there is minimum voltage being dropped across the
output transistors. Power dissipated in the output
transistors is thus minimized.

When an amp delivers voltage and current out-of-phase,
maximum current is delivered at a minimum output voltage, or
worse.

When the amp is delivering the maximum output voltage into a
highly reactive load, the voltage dropped across the output
transistors is maximized . Therefore, maximum current is
delivered when there is maximum voltage being dropped across
the output transistors. Power dissipated in the output
transistors is thus maximized for a short period of time.

One of the big changes in output transistors over the
decades has been improvements in their ability to handle
large amounts of power and handle high currents, for short
periods of time. Early transistors would just short out or
open up, and fail.
George Gleason
2005-08-08 00:46:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by chowterhead
Post by George Gleason
Post by George Gleason
Post by Phildo
Post by Chris Richmond - MD6-FDC ~
Post by Phildo
Just because you do something and think it works does not make it the right
thing to do.
You could be drastically shortening the life of your gear through
underpowering.
(I think I know this answer) What's so bad about underpowering a
speaker? Under what conditions is this bad?
If you are pushing the amp to the point of clipping then you are
damaging the driver.
clipping in of itself will not damage a driver
it must first exceed the heat sheading ability of the motor
structure before damage will occour
clip a 1/2 watt music on hold amp into a evx 18 till the statue of
liberty kicks a extra point through the brookyln bridge, the speaker
will not be damaged
george
of course a qsc rmx 2450 driven to clipping is powerful enough to
damage most any driver
George
My understanding is that a single channel of a QSC RMX 2450 (which is
what we use) is a good match with the Behringer B1800X subwoofer.
Additionally, we ran this using a Driverack PA. I don't believe we
ever ran it where it was clipping, seemed like we had a lot of
headroom. I'm guessing (given some members of my band's lack of
respect for being delicate with equipment) that it just got
bumped/jostled too much.
most of my cone driver that fail, fail due to magnet shifting due to
rough handleing
George
SSJVCmag
2005-08-09 17:58:37 UTC
Permalink
On 8/7/05 8:46 PM, in article
Post by George Gleason
Post by chowterhead
Post by George Gleason
Post by George Gleason
Post by Phildo
Post by Chris Richmond - MD6-FDC ~
Post by Phildo
Just because you do something and think it works does not make it the right
thing to do.
You could be drastically shortening the life of your gear through
underpowering.
(I think I know this answer) What's so bad about underpowering a
speaker? Under what conditions is this bad?
If you are pushing the amp to the point of clipping then you are
damaging the driver.
clipping in of itself will not damage a driver
it must first exceed the heat sheading ability of the motor
structure before damage will occour
clip a 1/2 watt music on hold amp into a evx 18 till the statue of
liberty kicks a extra point through the brookyln bridge, the speaker
will not be damaged
george
of course a qsc rmx 2450 driven to clipping is powerful enough to
damage most any driver
George
My understanding is that a single channel of a QSC RMX 2450 (which is
what we use) is a good match with the Behringer B1800X subwoofer.
Additionally, we ran this using a Driverack PA. I don't believe we
ever ran it where it was clipping, seemed like we had a lot of
headroom. I'm guessing (given some members of my band's lack of
respect for being delicate with equipment) that it just got
bumped/jostled too much.
most of my cone driver that fail, fail due to magnet shifting due to
rough handleing
My first was a year back and it threw me, never knew it was common in any
sense since I'd never heard of it. A box dropped about 10" slipping off a
dolly and it did the deed.
Rupert
2005-08-09 18:04:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by SSJVCmag
My first was a year back and it threw me, never knew it was common in any
sense since I'd never heard of it. A box dropped about 10" slipping off a
dolly and it did the deed.
RCF had a whole bunch of 15" drivers with flawed magnets that would
cause the pole piece to shift and seize the driver. Most of them made
it into Mackie boxes. The magnets always fracture dead center,
concentrically. EAW was fairly busy shipping out replacements for a
while.

Rupert
Chad Wahls
2005-08-09 18:36:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rupert
Post by SSJVCmag
My first was a year back and it threw me, never knew it was common in any
sense since I'd never heard of it. A box dropped about 10" slipping off a
dolly and it did the deed.
RCF had a whole bunch of 15" drivers with flawed magnets that would
cause the pole piece to shift and seize the driver. Most of them made
it into Mackie boxes. The magnets always fracture dead center,
concentrically. EAW was fairly busy shipping out replacements for a
while.
Rupert
12 inchers too, blew my mind the first time I saw one! I'm used to seeing
the shift at the back plate!

Chad
George Gleason
2005-08-09 18:41:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chad Wahls
Post by Rupert
Post by SSJVCmag
My first was a year back and it threw me, never knew it was common
in any sense since I'd never heard of it. A box dropped about 10"
slipping off a dolly and it did the deed.
RCF had a whole bunch of 15" drivers with flawed magnets that would
cause the pole piece to shift and seize the driver. Most of them made
it into Mackie boxes. The magnets always fracture dead center,
concentrically. EAW was fairly busy shipping out replacements for a
while.
Rupert
12 inchers too, blew my mind the first time I saw one! I'm used to
seeing the shift at the back plate!
Chad
Every one of the drivers in my "first" Pa boxes suffered a cracked magnet,
split horizonatly like two dinner plate
these were JBL G series
George
SSJVCmag
2005-08-11 13:48:54 UTC
Permalink
On 8/9/05 2:04 PM, in article
Post by Rupert
Post by SSJVCmag
My first was a year back and it threw me, never knew it was common in any
sense since I'd never heard of it. A box dropped about 10" slipping off a
dolly and it did the deed.
RCF had a whole bunch of 15" drivers with flawed magnets that would
cause the pole piece to shift and seize the driver. Most of them made
it into Mackie boxes. The magnets always fracture dead center,
concentrically. EAW was fairly busy shipping out replacements for a
while.
Is this (assumed) latteral-magnet-shift siezed-VC thing reparable? both
klipsch (the woofer in question) and eminence have smiled sadly and said
'no' about it.
Rupert
2005-08-11 15:19:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by SSJVCmag
On 8/9/05 2:04 PM, in article
Post by Rupert
Post by SSJVCmag
My first was a year back and it threw me, never knew it was common in any
sense since I'd never heard of it. A box dropped about 10" slipping off a
dolly and it did the deed.
RCF had a whole bunch of 15" drivers with flawed magnets that would
cause the pole piece to shift and seize the driver. Most of them made
it into Mackie boxes. The magnets always fracture dead center,
concentrically. EAW was fairly busy shipping out replacements for a
while.
Is this (assumed) latteral-magnet-shift siezed-VC thing reparable? both
klipsch (the woofer in question) and eminence have smiled sadly and said
'no' about it.
It's true. Once the magnet cracks, it's over. The only exception is if
the driver has a bolt-on motor assembly, in which case you're replacing
most of the non-suspended components. At that point, you essentially
have a new driver except for the basket, so it kind of a moot point.

Rupert

George Gleason
2005-08-09 18:39:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by SSJVCmag
Post by George Gleason
most of my cone driver that fail, fail due to magnet shifting due to
rough handleing
My first was a year back and it threw me, never knew it was common in
any sense since I'd never heard of it. A box dropped about 10"
slipping off a dolly and it did the deed.
It is especially common with"user replaceable" basket assemblys
such as peavey and McCuley
george
Phildo
2005-08-01 11:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by chowterhead
I run it off of a Drive Rack PA, so and the crossover seems to be working
fine. Again, we "hear" noise coming out of it, but it's heavily distorted
which makes me think it's blown. I doubt it's the speakon cable but will
test to be sure.
Please stop with the top-posting. We bottom post here because it makes it
easier for the blind readers we have.

Thanks

Phildo
Tim Scott
2005-08-02 09:32:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phildo
Post by chowterhead
I run it off of a Drive Rack PA, so and the crossover seems to be working
fine. Again, we "hear" noise coming out of it, but it's heavily distorted
which makes me think it's blown. I doubt it's the speakon cable but will
test to be sure.
Please stop with the top-posting. We bottom post here because it makes it
easier for the blind readers we have.
And the non-blind people who are used to reading from the top downward, like
in books, newspapers, webpages, infact most places text is written it flows
that way, it just makes life easier not to do it differently on usenet!
Loading...