I need phase reversal adapters for a Mackie CR 1604

** Why do you think a phase reverser is needed ?

......... Phil

Tim S Kemp

2003-10-07 07:29:01 UTC

0ooops! guess I'm not everyone!

tim perry

2003-10-07 14:26:06 UTC

some amps (i.e. older QSC amps) use tip negative on the 1/4 in inputs.

wiring a short XLR pigtail to the balanced barrier strip inputs has proven
satisfactory to me as an alternative to reversing the banana plugs when
using this amp mixed with others.

most off the shelf reversing adaptors are XLR type (and overpriced).

if i really really needed to swap polarity i would rewire the cable from
board to amp at one end then mark it in some fashion.

Einars Cintins

2003-10-07 21:05:25 UTC

Post by Gaffpro
For the time being, I'm using a Mackie CR 1604 mixer for my band gigs.
As everyone knows, the left and right outs (tip and ring)are wired ass
backwards on the Mackie when balanced cables are used. Does anyone
know where I can buy 1/4" phase reversal adapters for the Mackie so I
can use balanced 1/4" cables?
Also I've had to use channels 15 & 16 for reverb returns to get reverb
into the monitors. Is there any way that I can use the Aux send &
return portion of the board for this instead of taking up two channels
that I need?
Thanks

hi,

what's the problem to get underneath the lid of this mixer and wire
everything properly? This has to be done just once and it will become
ar ordinary unit. I had to do that when got Carver PM1200 several
years ago- they changed hot/cold pins in XLR connectors.

Einars Cintins
sound engineer

Carl Updegraff

2003-10-07 21:20:24 UTC

hi,
what's the problem to get underneath the lid of this mixer and wire
everything properly? This has to be done just once and it will become
ar ordinary unit. I had to do that when got Carver PM1200 several
years ago- they changed hot/cold pins in XLR connectors.
Einars Cintins
sound engineer

Uhmmm..

Well...let's see...The Venerable GOD Greg Mackie mentions in page 14
of his Mackie BIBLE that reversing the wires would do nasty stuff...

it is written so it must be true.

Worship all things MACKIE...err...I mean BEHRINGER...I mean...oh,
hell...

Carl

Phil Allison

2003-10-07 21:26:33 UTC

hi,
what's the problem to get underneath the lid of this mixer and wire
everything properly? This has to be done just once and it will become
ar ordinary unit. I had to do that when got Carver PM1200 several
years ago- they changed hot/cold pins in XLR connectors.

** Mixers are not amplifiers. There may be a need to have a group of
amps operate in phase when the are seeing the same input signal but the
outputs of a mixer have no such issue.

........... Phil

Bob Quintal

2003-10-07 22:25:21 UTC

Post by Gaffpro
For the time being, I'm using a Mackie CR 1604 mixer for my
band gigs. As everyone knows, the left and right outs (tip
and ring)are wired ass backwards on the Mackie when
balanced cables are used. Does anyone know where I can buy
1/4" phase reversal adapters for the Mackie so I can use
balanced 1/4" cables? Also I've had to use channels 15 & 16
for reverb returns to get reverb into the monitors. Is
there any way that I can use the Aux send & return portion
of the board for this instead of taking up two channels
that I need?
Thanks

hi,
what's the problem to get underneath the lid of this mixer
and wire everything properly? This has to be done just once
and it will become ar ordinary unit. I had to do that when
got Carver PM1200 several years ago- they changed hot/cold
pins in XLR connectors.

** Mixers are not amplifiers. There may be a need to have
a group of
amps operate in phase when the are seeing the same input
signal but the outputs of a mixer have no such issue.
........... Phil

Mr Assilon has never encountered a phase null from a high-powered
bass amplifier being out of phase from the SR system due to a mixer
(or any other piece of gear) having a reversal issue.

Not surprising because he's not a Sound Reinforcement Engineer,
much less a competent person.

Bob

Phil Allison

2003-10-07 22:50:55 UTC

Post by Phil Allison
** Mixers are not amplifiers. There may be a need to have
a group of amps operate in phase when the are seeing the same input
signal but the outputs of a mixer have no such issue.
........... Phil

Mr Assilon has never encountered a phase null from a high-powered
bass amplifier being out of phase from the SR system due to a mixer
(or any other piece of gear) having a reversal issue.

** Different issue entirely since it pertains to only one input channel -
can be fixed by using the phase switch on the particular channel.

Typical of Bob the Moron to produce a red herring like this.

Post by Bob Quintal
Not surprising because he's not a Sound Reinforcement Engineer,
much less a competent person.

** More competent that an idiot/asshole like you could ever dream of
being.

............ Phil

2003-10-07 22:18:13 UTC

Mr Assilon has never encountered a phase null from a high-powered
bass amplifier being out of phase from the SR system due to a mixer
(or any other piece of gear) having a reversal issue.

** Different issue entirely since it pertains to only one input

hannel -

Post by Phil Allison
can be fixed by using the phase switch on the particular channel.
Typical of Bob the Moron to produce a red herring like this.

Post by Bob Quintal
Not surprising because he's not a Sound Reinforcement Engineer,
much less a competent person.

** More competent that an idiot/asshole like you could ever dream of
being.

Hopefully you already know that if the aux sends are tip + polarity, you'll
run into trouble running subs or center fills from an aux send with reversed
polarity main sends. Even a rookie fader jockey knows that.

GK

Phil Allison

2003-10-07 23:28:29 UTC

Post by GK
Hopefully you already know that if the aux sends are tip + polarity, you'll
run into trouble running subs or center fills from an aux send with reversed
polarity main sends. Even a rookie fader jockey knows that.

** You will also run into the same "trouble" (?) if JBL brand speakers
are used - since they have the reverse phase convention to other brands.

Or one of the power amps or signal processors reverses the phase on the
way through - how do you know it does or does not ?

Or there is enough phase shift at the crossover frequency to produce a
null in the combined sound etc etc.

So many things to worry about.

.......... Phil

2003-10-07 23:47:18 UTC

Post by GK

Post by GK
Hopefully you already know that if the aux sends are tip + polarity,

you'll

Post by GK
run into trouble running subs or center fills from an aux send with

reversed

Post by GK
polarity main sends. Even a rookie fader jockey knows that.

Use a polarity checker to click test every box in the system as a regular
part of setting up unknown systems. I also have a little old (~3" CRT) 20mhz
B&K scope to compare I/O polarity on amps and processors.

Post by GK
Or there is enough phase shift at the crossover frequency to produce a
null in the combined sound etc etc.
So many things to worry about.

Yep, and once again, it's some Wackie mixer that is the root cause of the
OP's worries.

GK

Phil Allison

2003-10-08 00:54:09 UTC

Post by GK
Hopefully you already know that if the aux sends are tip + polarity,

you'll run into trouble running subs or center fills from an aux send

with

reversed polarity main sends. Even a rookie fader jockey knows that.
** You will also run into the same "trouble" (?) if JBL brand

speakers are used - since they have the reverse phase convention to other

brands.

Or one of the power amps or signal processors reverses the phase on the
way through - how do you know it does or does not ?

** The question was rhetorical - the average user has no such test
gear.

Or there is enough phase shift at the crossover frequency to produce a
null in the combined sound etc etc.
So many things to worry about.

Yep, and once again, it's some Wackie mixer that is the root cause of the
OP's worries.

** Bullshit - the OP has not explained his concerns to us at all.

............ Phil

Joe Lawrence

2003-10-08 07:32:27 UTC

Mr Assilon has never encountered a phase null from a high-powered
bass amplifier being out of phase from the SR system due to a mixer
(or any other piece of gear) having a reversal issue.

** Different issue entirely since it pertains to only one input

hannel -

Post by Phil Allison
can be fixed by using the phase switch on the particular channel.
Typical of Bob the Moron to produce a red herring like this.

Post by Bob Quintal
Not surprising because he's not a Sound Reinforcement Engineer,
much less a competent person.

** More competent that an idiot/asshole like you could ever dream of
being.
............ Phil

Phase switch on a Mackie? Where?

Joe L

Phil Allison

2003-10-08 07:40:42 UTC

Post by Phil Allison
** Mixers are not amplifiers. There may be a need to have
a group of amps operate in phase when the are seeing the same

input

Post by Phil Allison
signal but the outputs of a mixer have no such issue.
........... Phil

Mr Assilon has never encountered a phase null from a high-powered
bass amplifier being out of phase from the SR system due to a mixer
(or any other piece of gear) having a reversal issue.

** Different issue entirely since it pertains to only one input

hannel - can be fixed by using the phase switch on the particular

channel.

Post by Phil Allison
Typical of Bob the Moron to produce a red herring like this.

Phase switch on a Mackie? Where?

** The red herring did not attach itself to a Mackie desk in
particular.

When there is none, a phase reversing mic lead will do the job
nicely.

Everyone has one of them - right ???

......... Phil

Joe Lawrence

2003-10-09 05:52:32 UTC

Post by Phil Allison
** Mixers are not amplifiers. There may be a need to have
a group of amps operate in phase when the are seeing the same

input

Post by Phil Allison
signal but the outputs of a mixer have no such issue.
........... Phil

Mr Assilon has never encountered a phase null from a high-powered
bass amplifier being out of phase from the SR system due to a mixer
(or any other piece of gear) having a reversal issue.

** Different issue entirely since it pertains to only one input

hannel - can be fixed by using the phase switch on the particular

channel.

Post by Phil Allison
Typical of Bob the Moron to produce a red herring like this.

Phase switch on a Mackie? Where?

** The red herring did not attach itself to a Mackie desk in
particular.
When there is none, a phase reversing mic lead will do the job
nicely.
Everyone has one of them - right ???
......... Phil

Phil Allison posted;

< ** Different issue entirely since it pertains to only one input
hannel -
can be fixed by using the phase switch on the particular channel.>

Since the post was in reference to a Mackie console I was wondering if the
phase switch was invisible on my sr24.Hence the sarcasm.

Joe L

Phil Allison

2003-10-09 06:52:47 UTC

Since the post was in reference to a Mackie console...

** WRONG - read the thread - it had moved on after BQ's post .

............ Phil

Joe Lawrence

2003-10-09 21:06:32 UTC

Since the post was in reference to a Mackie console...

** WRONG - read the thread - it had moved on after BQ's post .
............ Phil

No one mentioned any other brand, and the header was still the
same.........It's OK though, I really don't care if you "have" to be right.
Lighten up,Phil

Joe L

Phil Allison

2003-10-09 23:23:42 UTC

Post by Joe Lawrence

Since the post was in reference to a Mackie console...

** WRONG - read the thread - it had moved on after BQ's post .
............ Phil

No one mentioned any other brand,

** So what - the subject was generalised to all mixers.

and the header was still the same.........

** So what - the prior post was not.

Post by Joe Lawrence
It's OK though, I really don't care if you "have" to be right.

** Screw you.

............ Phil

Einars Cintins

2003-10-08 20:55:22 UTC

hi,
what's the problem to get underneath the lid of this mixer and wire
everything properly? This has to be done just once and it will become
ar ordinary unit. I had to do that when got Carver PM1200 several
years ago- they changed hot/cold pins in XLR connectors.

** Mixers are not amplifiers. There may be a need to have a group of
amps operate in phase when the are seeing the same input signal but the
outputs of a mixer have no such issue.
........... Phil

hi,

I fail to recognize the necessity to reverse something in mixer
different way than using phase reverse switch on input. You sure will
have a phase problems between accoustics from stage and PA in small
venues. Just haven't seen a different solution than 2 opamps w.
parralel inputs and direct/inverting outputs connected to XLR or TRS
terminals. And there is no way to make mixer sound worse just by
changing over connector contacts. PCB is not a problem, cut a copper
strip and solder wire over (sure I haven't told something new, did I?)

br, Einars
sound engineer

2003-10-07 22:19:12 UTC

hi,
what's the problem to get underneath the lid of this mixer and wire
everything properly? This has to be done just once and it will become
ar ordinary unit. I had to do that when got Carver PM1200 several
years ago- they changed hot/cold pins in XLR connectors.
Einars Cintins
sound engineer

Mackie tech support says that changing the jacks' wiring is not an easy
modification to make, as the jacks are board-mounted.

GK

Tim Scott

2003-10-07 23:08:06 UTC

Post by Gaffpro
Also I've had to use channels 15 & 16 for reverb returns to get reverb
into the monitors. Is there any way that I can use the Aux send &
return portion of the board for this instead of taking up two channels
that I need?

You are best not having reverb in the monitors at all ... infact the less of
anything you can have in the monitors then the clearer the sound of them
will be, which in turn will enable the performer to hear themselves
clearer - to use a monitor effectively they need a clear and accurate
impression of their performance, putting a load of reverb over them will
only mask any imperfections in their performance, which will not help them
identify when they are going wrong, and so not enable them to corect
themselves ... trying to communicate this to an insecure vocalist is the
dificult part though! :-)

Brandon Anderson

2003-10-07 23:37:45 UTC

OK, this is simple: If you can, use XLR, if you can't, no matter.
Regardless, take a cable, swap the hot and cold, and mark it as such. If
you can't do that, then swap the black and red connectors on the amp (as in
black goes to red, don't take apart the amp!). If you can't do that, the
hire someone who knows sound.

Second part: Huh? Are you using reverb on one channel or multiple? If one,
just use the channel insert for it, and all is well. If multiple are using
an aux out for the effect, then how are you mapping it to FOH to begin with?
Main insert? Aux insert? What? I don't know the board, so I don't know
how much I can help you. Your best luck is going to be a good old fashion
manual and those reading skills you were taught in first grade.

Rick Stansby

2003-10-08 18:22:59 UTC

Post by Brandon Anderson
Second part: Huh? Are you using reverb on one channel or multiple? If one,
just use the channel insert for it, and all is well. If multiple are using
an aux out for the effect, then how are you mapping it to FOH to begin with?
Main insert? Aux insert? What? I don't know the board, so I don't know
how much I can help you. Your best luck is going to be a good old fashion
manual and those reading skills you were taught in first grade.

I know its fun to act like people who use Mackies are total idiots,
but I think the OP was pretty clear about how he is running the
effects. The same way 99% of "pro.live-sound" engineers prefer to do
it. He uses an aux out to send to the reverb and he uses two channels
on the board for returns, that way he can "map" the reverb to FOH and
the monitors. Your answer was so insightful, it doesn't help the OP,
but it tells me a lot about you. You are right that if he is
desperate for those extra channels, and only needs reverb on one
channel, he can use a channel insert.

To the OP, I don't think you can get the reverb onto the aux sends
without using channels like you are doing. If its a stereo reverb,
you might consider only using one channel and not running the reverb
in stereo, that would get you one channel back.
--
Ricko

Gaffpro

2003-10-09 01:21:14 UTC

Ricko:
I'm glad you replied. You're the only one who directly answered my
questions, which were simple and direct.

Guys: I don't want opinions about fader jockeys, why I shouldn't have
reverb in the monitors, reading skills, etc. If you don't have a half
way decent answer, don't waste my time!

Phildo

2003-10-12 10:17:56 UTC

Post by Gaffpro
I'm glad you replied. You're the only one who directly answered my
questions, which were simple and direct.
Guys: I don't want opinions about fader jockeys, why I shouldn't have
reverb in the monitors, reading skills, etc. If you don't have a half
way decent answer, don't waste my time!

You seem to be so arrogant you think this newsgroup is here solely for your
benefit. If we want to discuss other things that go off on a tangent from
your original question then that is exactly what usenet is for - DISCUSSION.
If you want one to one service then go to an audio consultant and pay them.

Phildop

2003-10-13 12:01:52 UTC

Post by Phildo

My comments about fader jockeys were aimed at the blunder from down under.
He posted info that was incorrect and misleading.

GK

Phil Allison

2003-10-13 13:20:25 UTC

Post by GK
My comments about fader jockeys were aimed at the blunder from down under.
He posted info that was incorrect and misleading.

** Like bloody hell I did.

What you posted GK was false and misleading in the extreme.

........... Phil

Joe L

2003-10-13 20:29:20 UTC

Post by GK
My comments about fader jockeys were aimed at the blunder from down under.
He posted info that was incorrect and misleading.

** Like bloody hell I did.
What you posted GK was false and misleading in the extreme.
........... Phil

I guess I'm not the only one that's wrong in this thread. Going for a
record?

Brandon Anderson

2003-10-09 02:11:59 UTC

Sorry, by the time I got to the second part I forgot about the two channel
thing... I should be more careful. But the basic point of my post was
simple enough and still relevant: if the manual can't answer that kind of
question, few others can. That is in regard to which inputs can be mapped
to outputs, etc. Some boards allow the aux returns to map to a number of
things, including some aux outs. Others only go to the main mix. As I
said, I don't know the board and can't say, but I bet the manual will.

Post by Rick Stansby

I know its fun to act like people who use Mackies are total idiots,
but I think the OP was pretty clear about how he is running the
effects. The same way 99% of "pro.live-sound" engineers prefer to do
it. He uses an aux out to send to the reverb and he uses two channels
on the board for returns, that way he can "map" the reverb to FOH and
the monitors. Your answer was so insightful, it doesn't help the OP,
but it tells me a lot about you. You are right that if he is
desperate for those extra channels, and only needs reverb on one
channel, he can use a channel insert.
To the OP, I don't think you can get the reverb onto the aux sends
without using channels like you are doing. If its a stereo reverb,
you might consider only using one channel and not running the reverb
in stereo, that would get you one channel back.
--
Ricko

Gaffpro

2003-10-20 06:16:44 UTC

To Ricko:
Thanks again for your help - I reversed the wires to the tip and ring
and resoldered - the mixer works great! The manual was ambiguous from
the start
(which is why I posted) and several mackie techs weren't sure about
which jacks were reversed.

To Phildo The Dildo:
Arrogance? You couldn't answer the simple questions that I posted!
Nothing personal, I'm just impatient when it comes to stupid people
that like to waste time. Get my drift?

Phildo

2003-10-20 07:50:00 UTC

Post by Gaffpro
Thanks again for your help - I reversed the wires to the tip and ring
and resoldered - the mixer works great! The manual was ambiguous from
the start
(which is why I posted) and several mackie techs weren't sure about
which jacks were reversed.

Oh wow, such comic genius. A put-down based on the very word my nick is a
parody of. How can I compete with such scathing wit? Oscar Wilde reincarnate
graces us with his precence on this very group.

Post by Gaffpro
Arrogance? You couldn't answer the simple questions that I posted!

I did answer it. In fact, I gave you a very good answer as did many other
people here. Your ego was just too big to accept that you may possibly be
wrong. Why bother coming on here if you weren't gonna listen to the good
advice you were given? Pretty obvious you were not put on this earth to
further the causes of rocket science.

Post by Gaffpro
Nothing personal, I'm just impatient when it comes to stupid people
that like to waste time. Get my drift?

I'm the same which is exactly why you got the treatment you did.

Gaffpro

2003-10-21 06:30:43 UTC

Well, if it took putting up with a moron to actually have someone else
on these posts lead me in the right direction, I guess it was worth
it.

Phildo

2003-10-21 18:57:04 UTC

Post by Gaffpro
Well, if it took putting up with a moron to actually have someone else
on these posts lead me in the right direction, I guess it was worth
it.

Surely you have to put up with a moron every day when you look in the
mirror?

Jeez, some people are such crybabies.

Phildo

Gaffpro

2003-10-25 07:17:44 UTC

Evidently I got under your skin you worthless turd! You know nothing
about audio, that's for sure. Anyone else in your family have down
syndrome or is this an isolated case?

Phildo

2003-10-25 10:58:43 UTC