Why are Speakon Cables so expensive?

[Analogeezer]

I've decided to convert some of my older gear to speakons, and I'm
getting sticker shock from the prices.

With regular speaker cables (Bannanas and 1/4") you might as well buy
them because the parts cost more than you can often buy them for.

With Speakons though, I see 50' of cable, and two $4.00 connectors and
they want $50 and up (there are some places I've seen them cheaper but
not by much).

Any reason why these things are so friggin expensive?

I'm not one to bitch about price usually but these things (speakon
cables) are getting dangerously close to "Audiophile speaker cable"
prices.

Any good sources for speakon cables?

Thanks,

Analogeezer

[reese thomas]

Post by Analogeezer
Any reason why these things are so friggin expensive?
Any good sources for speakon cables?

I've wondered that, and I think it's because the speakon assembly, although
simple, doesn't lend itself as well to mass production, it's not much
faster to make a bunch of them as opposed to one as opposed to 1/4 or xlr
where once you get a system going,it's a snap.

Having said that, www.steelsound.com sells an import (not pro quality, but
they do work) VERY cheap (20' $9, 50' $18 and 100' $30

I'm tempted to order some myself, I actually saw a set in use by someone
else, they are flexible, he said they were 14-4

[Tim S Kemp]

Post by Analogeezer
I've decided to convert some of my older gear to speakons, and I'm
getting sticker shock from the prices.
With regular speaker cables (Bannanas and 1/4") you might as well buy
them because the parts cost more than you can often buy them for.
With Speakons though, I see 50' of cable, and two $4.00 connectors and
they want $50 and up (there are some places I've seen them cheaper but
not by much).
Any reason why these things are so friggin expensive?
I'm not one to bitch about price usually but these things (speakon
cables) are getting dangerously close to "Audiophile speaker cable"
prices.
Any good sources for speakon cables?
Thanks,
Analogeezer

Not sure about the US but they seam cheap enough over here, www.baldbeat.com
do 15m for £18, I use them on the martin rig and they're OK, cable is a bit
shiny and cheap looking but does the job. Lots of other places, not all the
connectors appear to be originals but again, no quality problems with them
yet.

[E. Hill]

Post by Analogeezer
Any good sources for speakon cables?

Your garage. I have a 250' spool of Carol 12/2 if you want to buy it. Will
cut.

;-)

Eric

[Mike]

Post by Analogeezer
I've decided to convert some of my older gear to speakons,
and I'm getting sticker shock from the prices.
With regular speaker cables (Bannanas and 1/4") you might
as well buy them because the parts cost more than you can
often buy them for.
With Speakons though, I see 50' of cable, and two $4.00
connectors and they want $50 and up (there are some
places I've seen them cheaper but not by much).
Any reason why these things are so friggin expensive?

Let's take a step backwards here.... With the 1/4"/banana cable
you're using 2 wire cable of what gauge?? How does that compare to the
speakon cables?? Most likely the speakon cables are heavier gauge and 4
wire instead of two wire.

Post by Analogeezer
Any good sources for speakon cables?

If you want to compare high end prices, check out Whirlwind... For
decent, cheaper cabling check out CBI at http://www.cbicables.com

Mike Borkhuis
Audio Images Sound & Lighting Inc
www.audioimagesonline.com

[j***@webtv.net]

Do what I do build them yourself. I buy the ends for about $6.15 each
from a wholesaler, the more you buy the cheaper it get's. Same with the
cable. Here is a site that has good deals www.partsexpress.com. Most
major cities have wholesalers of this type. My town has a place called
Tulsa Scenic. I build all my panels, cables, racks myself. Most major
sound company's do the same. Buying pre-made stuff will send you to the
poor house for sure. Also building the stuff yourself will insure
quality that you expect. A speakon cable will last a long long time.
Good luck.

[Panzzi]

Post by Analogeezer
With Speakons though, I see 50' of cable, and two $4.00 connectors and
they want $50 and up (there are some places I've seen them cheaper but
not by much).
Any reason why these things are so friggin expensive?

Try to do one for yourself, mark the time for you to make one 50' cable,
break down all the cost of material including equipment. Then add the
overhead cost of a store, stock cost, this and that, they will be happy if
they can make 15% from the dealor cost. :)

Panzzi

[hank alrich]

Post by Analogeezer
I've decided to convert some of my older gear to speakons, and I'm
getting sticker shock from the prices.
With regular speaker cables (Bannanas and 1/4") you might as well buy
them because the parts cost more than you can often buy them for.

How long have those connectors been in production? In what other
industries do they perform a standard function? Economies of scale?

Post by Analogeezer
With Speakons though, I see 50' of cable, and two $4.00 connectors and
they want $50 and up (there are some places I've seen them cheaper but
not by much).

Some of those cables are four conductor, assuming biamplification.
Building your own saves on the wire there. Conquest's flyer shows NL2FC
(2-pole) for $1.93. Add wire to suit.

As soon as you wire up a Speakon you will see the labor investment is
different. Then, economies of scale, as in relatively small scale?

Conquest also shows 2 conductor cables wtih Speakons at prices well
below those irritating you. <g>

<http://www.conquestsound.com>

--
ha

[Tim Padrick]

Get your NL4s from FullCompass.com
http://www.fullcompass.com/Catalog/catalog_pdfs/pdfs4/acc_connectors2.pdf .
I use the gold pinned ones, but the standard ones are fine. Buy 10 or more
and the price drops nicely ($3.19 for the standard cable connector, $4.88
for the gold. I solder them, but the screw terminals work fine.

You can get jack plates from penn-fabrication.com . Search for "speakon",
as they have several types, one of which is hopefully the same size as your
present plates. (You can modify yours, but it requires a 1" hole saw that
has been ground down to 15/16" or so.)

Get your 12-4 SJ from CamelTraders.com . 250' for $100. There's nothing
like having plenty of speaker cables on hand.

Post by Analogeezer
I've decided to convert some of my older gear to speakons, and I'm
getting sticker shock from the prices.
With regular speaker cables (Bannanas and 1/4") you might as well buy
them because the parts cost more than you can often buy them for.
With Speakons though, I see 50' of cable, and two $4.00 connectors and
they want $50 and up (there are some places I've seen them cheaper but
not by much).
Any reason why these things are so friggin expensive?
I'm not one to bitch about price usually but these things (speakon
cables) are getting dangerously close to "Audiophile speaker cable"
prices.
Any good sources for speakon cables?
Thanks,
Analogeezer

[Jerry Wood]

Post by Tim Padrick
Get your NL4s from FullCompass.com
http://www.fullcompass.com/Catalog/catalog_pdfs/pdfs4/acc_connectors2.pdf .
I use the gold pinned ones, but the standard ones are fine. Buy 10 or more
and the price drops nicely ($3.19 for the standard cable connector, $4.88
for the gold. I solder them, but the screw terminals work fine.
You can get jack plates from penn-fabrication.com . Search for "speakon",
as they have several types, one of which is hopefully the same size as your
present plates. (You can modify yours, but it requires a 1" hole saw that
has been ground down to 15/16" or so.)
Get your 12-4 SJ from CamelTraders.com . 250' for $100. There's nothing
like having plenty of speaker cables on hand.

Post by Analogeezer
I've decided to convert some of my older gear to speakons, and I'm
getting sticker shock from the prices.
With regular speaker cables (Bannanas and 1/4") you might as well buy
them because the parts cost more than you can often buy them for.
With Speakons though, I see 50' of cable, and two $4.00 connectors and
they want $50 and up (there are some places I've seen them cheaper but
not by much).
Any reason why these things are so friggin expensive?
I'm not one to bitch about price usually but these things (speakon
cables) are getting dangerously close to "Audiophile speaker cable"
prices.
Any good sources for speakon cables?
Thanks,
Analogeezer

I need to make up 48 TRS to trs Cables for my alesis adat hd 24. You've
inspired me to buy the parts an do it my self!

jerry

[Sanders]

The best reason I can think of about these things is that it prevents
using a mic cord from being mistaken for a speaker cable. We always
used 12g speaker wire for the speaker cable. Regular 12g wires will have
one side with a ridge and the other side without one. You do not have
to buy expensive speaker cable unless you are wanting to use
silver/gold. There is no mistaking a mic cord for a speakers cable that
way. ( As I have seen done many times )

You do have to use massive 1/4 in jacks to hold 12 g wire though
Sometimes we had to use black tape to cover the connection at the jack.
One way we got around it was to label each cord to where it was
supposed to go. Color coding and labeling your wires +/- would help a
lot to prevent cable mix up. Two many times, speakers 1/4 to 1/4 look
just like guitar cable cords and only use about 16 g wire. This is not
enough wire needed to carry speaker amperage to your amps.

Mic cords just are not able to carry the current speaker cables do and
so their would be a great signal loss if a mic cable is used. The
different connections is to help those drunk and wasted stage hands ( I
know this is true because of some of the help I have been offered along
the way. - lol ) to make less mistakes in their hurry to set things up.

The important thing is to make sure all cables follow the same
polarity pattern on both ends for ALL cables being used for speakers.
Make sure that when connected to the plus site all speakers either move
in or out together so the whole system is in phase and you don't
experience Phase out cancellation due to improper phasing. (should of
been +/- instead of -/+) Use a 9 volt battery for this test. JBL is
known to be backwards to other drivers as an example and their cables
need to reverse polarity between the amp and driver. Keep the polarity
the same at all the amps and change them on each individual driver as
needed to make sure the system stays in phase. An out of phase of the
botom end will cancel out your lows and increase the midrange.

John

Post by Analogeezer
I've decided to convert some of my older gear to speakons, and I'm
getting sticker shock from the prices.
With regular speaker cables (Bannanas and 1/4") you might as well buy
them because the parts cost more than you can often buy them for.
With Speakons though, I see 50' of cable, and two $4.00 connectors and
they want $50 and up (there are some places I've seen them cheaper but
not by much).
Any reason why these things are so friggin expensive?
I'm not one to bitch about price usually but these things (speakon
cables) are getting dangerously close to "Audiophile speaker cable"
prices.
Any good sources for speakon cables?
Thanks,
Analogeezer

[David Duffy]

Post by Sanders
The best reason I can think of about these things is that it prevents
using a mic cord from being mistaken for a speaker cable. We always
used 12g speaker wire for the speaker cable. Regular 12g wires will have
one side with a ridge and the other side without one. You do not have
to buy expensive speaker cable unless you are wanting to use
silver/gold. There is no mistaking a mic cord for a speakers cable that
way. ( As I have seen done many times )

Mic cables use male-female XLRs. Speaker cables use female-female
so there's no real dnager of mixing up XLR mix and speaker leads.

Post by Sanders
You do have to use massive 1/4 in jacks to hold 12 g wire though
Sometimes we had to use black tape to cover the connection at the jack.
One way we got around it was to label each cord to where it was
supposed to go. Color coding and labeling your wires +/- would help a
lot to prevent cable mix up. Two many times, speakers 1/4 to 1/4 look
just like guitar cable cords and only use about 16 g wire. This is not
enough wire needed to carry speaker amperage to your amps.

If you're going to the effort of large gauge speaker cable then
don't piss about with 1/4 jacks. Total waste of time I reckon.
You need to use at least XLRs or as the OP asked about, Speakons.
Once you use Speakons, XLRs just don't seem as nice after all!
David...

[Sanders]

My mistake, I should of said 1/4 to 1/4 guitar cables instead of mic
cords which are xlr if they are low imped. I believe I cleared that up
further in the discussion. If the main concern is price, the way I
described is the cheapest, If you have extra $$$$$$$ sitting around to
waste, go for the more expensive connectors. Both will do the job.

John

Post by David Duffy

Post by Sanders
The best reason I can think of about these things is that it prevents
using a mic cord from being mistaken for a speaker cable. We always
used 12g speaker wire for the speaker cable. Regular 12g wires will
have one side with a ridge and the other side without one. You do not
have to buy expensive speaker cable unless you are wanting to use
silver/gold. There is no mistaking a mic cord for a speakers cable
that way. ( As I have seen done many times )

Mic cables use male-female XLRs. Speaker cables use female-female
so there's no real dnager of mixing up XLR mix and speaker leads.

Post by Sanders
You do have to use massive 1/4 in jacks to hold 12 g wire though
Sometimes we had to use black tape to cover the connection at the
jack. One way we got around it was to label each cord to where it was
supposed to go. Color coding and labeling your wires +/- would help a
lot to prevent cable mix up. Two many times, speakers 1/4 to 1/4 look
just like guitar cable cords and only use about 16 g wire. This is
not enough wire needed to carry speaker amperage to your amps.

If you're going to the effort of large gauge speaker cable then
don't piss about with 1/4 jacks. Total waste of time I reckon.
You need to use at least XLRs or as the OP asked about, Speakons.
Once you use Speakons, XLRs just don't seem as nice after all!
David...

[David Duffy]

Post by Sanders
My mistake, I should of said 1/4 to 1/4 guitar cables instead of mic
cords which are xlr if they are low imped. I believe I cleared that up
further in the discussion. If the main concern is price, the way I
described is the cheapest, If you have extra $$$$$$$ sitting around to
waste, go for the more expensive connectors. Both will do the job.

As you can tell, I'm no fan on 1/4 plugs on speaker connections.
Penn do nice XLR plates to upgrade speakers with 1/4 sockets.

One time when I went along to my son's high school, they were
setting up their (powered mixer) PA system. The teacher didn't
look like he really knew so I went over to take a look. He had
carefully plugged the speakers into the line-in sockets on the
front panel, right along side the microphones! Small wonder he
couldn't get it going. :-) Luckily no damage miswired this way.
David...

[Sanders]

It has been a while since I did PA work, but as I remember, soldering
XLR without at least 2 pairs of hands is close to impossible. Do they
use screw on connections?

What is the largest gauge wire that these speaker connectors can handle?

Yes, the 1/4 out from amp has been the problem many times when we had
"Help" setting things up - lol

Above all else, NEVER use normal wall outlet sockets and extension
cords. Met a band at festival and one of their crew hooked the speakers
to 110 AC ~~~~~

John

Post by David Duffy

Post by Sanders
My mistake, I should of said 1/4 to 1/4 guitar cables instead of mic
cords which are xlr if they are low imped. I believe I cleared that
up further in the discussion. If the main concern is price, the way I
described is the cheapest, If you have extra $$$$$$$ sitting around to
waste, go for the more expensive connectors. Both will do the job.

As you can tell, I'm no fan on 1/4 plugs on speaker connections.
Penn do nice XLR plates to upgrade speakers with 1/4 sockets.
One time when I went along to my son's high school, they were
setting up their (powered mixer) PA system. The teacher didn't
look like he really knew so I went over to take a look. He had
carefully plugged the speakers into the line-in sockets on the
front panel, right along side the microphones! Small wonder he
couldn't get it going. :-) Luckily no damage miswired this way.
David...

[Arny Krueger]

Post by Sanders
It has been a while since I did PA work, but as I remember, soldering
XLR without at least 2 pairs of hands is close to impossible.

Say what?

The latest Neutrik XLRs are IMO almost impossible to not solder right.

Post by Sanders
Do they use screw on connections?

I hope they never do!

Post by Sanders
What is the largest gauge wire that these speaker connectors can handle?

At least 20 gauge.

Post by Sanders
Yes, the 1/4 out from amp has been the problem many times when we had
"Help" setting things up - lol

Using the same connectors for speaker level and line level, and/or for ins
and outs, is a disaster waiting to happen.

Post by Sanders
Above all else, NEVER use normal wall outlet sockets and extension
cords. Met a band at festival and one of their crew hooked the
speakers to 110 AC ~~~~~

Agreed.

[Mike Dobony]

Post by Arny Krueger

Post by Sanders
It has been a while since I did PA work, but as I remember, soldering
XLR without at least 2 pairs of hands is close to impossible.

Say what?
The latest Neutrik XLRs are IMO almost impossible to not solder right.

Post by Sanders
Do they use screw on connections?

I hope they never do!

Post by Sanders
What is the largest gauge wire that these speaker connectors can handle?

At least 20 gauge.

I wouldn't use anything less than 16 and only if less than 25'. 12 guage is
MUCH better, holds up better and more reliable.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

Remove .spamnot to respond by email

Post by Arny Krueger

Post by Sanders
Yes, the 1/4 out from amp has been the problem many times when we had
"Help" setting things up - lol

Using the same connectors for speaker level and line level, and/or for ins
and outs, is a disaster waiting to happen.

Post by Sanders
Above all else, NEVER use normal wall outlet sockets and extension
cords. Met a band at festival and one of their crew hooked the
speakers to 110 AC ~~~~~

Agreed.

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.682 / Virus Database: 444 - Release Date: 5/11/2004

[Arny Krueger]

Post by Mike Dobony

Post by Arny Krueger

Post by Sanders
It has been a while since I did PA work, but as I remember,
soldering XLR without at least 2 pairs of hands is close to
impossible.

Say what?
The latest Neutrik XLRs are IMO almost impossible to not solder right.

Post by Sanders
Do they use screw on connections?

I hope they never do!

Post by Sanders
What is the largest gauge wire that these speaker connectors can handle?

At least 20 gauge.

I wouldn't use anything less than 16 and only if less than 25'. 12
guage is MUCH better, holds up better and more reliable.

Agreed. I'm not an advocate of using XLRs for speakers.

My FOH equipment uses XLRs for line level signals, nothing else and nothing
but. When I inherited it, I cut off the old connectors on the FOH wiring
that wasn't allready XLR, and reterminated it. I added a snake - with 100%
XLR connectors.

Post by Mike Dobony

Post by Arny Krueger

Post by Sanders
Yes, the 1/4 out from amp has been the problem many times when we
had "Help" setting things up - lol

Not funny when a power amp gets routed into a line input. The good news is
that a lot of equipment can take this kind of abuse.

Post by Mike Dobony

Post by Arny Krueger
Using the same connectors for speaker level and line level, and/or
for ins and outs, is a disaster waiting to happen.

Agreed.

[Tim Padrick]

Speakons will accept 12-4 no problem. I think they will accept 10-2, as the
PowerCons will accept 10-3 (if you modify the strain relief) and I think the
wire bucket is the same on both connectors. They use a strike plate and
set screw, but I discard these and solder them. FullCompass.com has the
best prices I have seen (if you buy at least 10). They are only about a
dollar more than a 1/4" connector. (PowerCon:
http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/ACcables/ACcables.htm )

Post by Sanders
It has been a while since I did PA work, but as I remember, soldering
XLR without at least 2 pairs of hands is close to impossible. Do they
use screw on connections?
What is the largest gauge wire that these speaker connectors can handle?
Yes, the 1/4 out from amp has been the problem many times when we had
"Help" setting things up - lol
Above all else, NEVER use normal wall outlet sockets and extension
cords. Met a band at festival and one of their crew hooked the speakers
to 110 AC ~~~~~
John

Post by David Duffy

Post by Sanders
My mistake, I should of said 1/4 to 1/4 guitar cables instead of mic
cords which are xlr if they are low imped. I believe I cleared that
up further in the discussion. If the main concern is price, the way I
described is the cheapest, If you have extra $$$$$$$ sitting around to
waste, go for the more expensive connectors. Both will do the job.

As you can tell, I'm no fan on 1/4 plugs on speaker connections.
Penn do nice XLR plates to upgrade speakers with 1/4 sockets.
One time when I went along to my son's high school, they were
setting up their (powered mixer) PA system. The teacher didn't
look like he really knew so I went over to take a look. He had
carefully plugged the speakers into the line-in sockets on the
front panel, right along side the microphones! Small wonder he
couldn't get it going. :-) Luckily no damage miswired this way.
David...

[David Duffy]

Post by Sanders
It has been a while since I did PA work, but as I remember, soldering
XLR without at least 2 pairs of hands is close to impossible. Do they
use screw on connections?

XLR's are not difficult to solder. Easier to get right than
a 1/4" plug I'd say. Less chance of a short and more reliable.
Either use a pair of pliers with a rubber band on the handles
to hold the connector still, or mount a matching socket on a
piece of wood. I don't use either but I'm quite experienced
in the art of soldering. You get very dexterous after a while!

Post by Sanders
What is the largest gauge wire that these speaker connectors can handle?

I don't work in AWG sizes but 2-core 2.5 sq mm should fit.
If you need bigger cable than that, you need a Speakon! :-)

Post by Sanders
Yes, the 1/4 out from amp has been the problem many times when we had
"Help" setting things up - lol

Yeah, when they ask "how can I help", you feel like saying
"go over there and help them". (another trade)

Post by Sanders
Above all else, NEVER use normal wall outlet sockets and extension
cords. Met a band at festival and one of their crew hooked the speakers
to 110 AC ~~~~~

Yikes! People that do stupid things like that (mains plug)
really need to be beaten with a large stick. (or fish!)
David...

[Kurt Albershardt]

Post by Sanders
The best reason I can think of about these things is that it prevents
using a mic cord from being mistaken for a speaker cable..
...
Mic cords just are not able to carry the current speaker cables do and
so their would be a great signal loss if a mic cable is used. The
different connections is to help those drunk and wasted stage hands ( I
know this is true because of some of the help I have been offered along
the way. - lol ) to make less mistakes in their hurry to set things up.

IIRC one of the design goals of the Speakon was that a 200 lb. roadie could use the plug bodies (when connected to a speaker) as a step to climb up an array.

Try that with a 1/4" or XLR...

[MacKerr]

<< The best reason I can think of about these things is that it prevents
using a mic cord from being mistaken for a speaker cable. We always
used 12g speaker wire for the speaker cable. Regular 12g wires will have
one side with a ridge and the other side without one. You do not have
to buy expensive speaker cable unless you are wanting to use
silver/gold. There is no mistaking a mic cord for a speakers cable that
way. ( As I have seen done many times )

You do have to use massive 1/4 in jacks to hold 12 g wire though >><BR><BR>

The best reason for using Speakon connectors is that they have large surface
area 20 amp contacts and they are a locking connector. Take a look at the
contact area on a 1/4" jack/plug pair. Speakons are also available with 2, 4 or
8 contacts for single amp. bi-amp and tri/quad amp. Of all the common
connectors for speakers 1/4" is the least suitable electrically. Even XLR has a
higher current carrying capability.
Mac

[Sanders]

If speakons will handle 12 G wire and help prevent improper connections,
then what ever their cost, they are worth it. Between the time cut down
for setup/teardown and trouble shooting the system, they will pay for
themselves many times over

John

Post by MacKerr
<< The best reason I can think of about these things is that it prevents
using a mic cord from being mistaken for a speaker cable. We always
used 12g speaker wire for the speaker cable. Regular 12g wires will have
one side with a ridge and the other side without one. You do not have
to buy expensive speaker cable unless you are wanting to use
silver/gold. There is no mistaking a mic cord for a speakers cable that
way. ( As I have seen done many times )
You do have to use massive 1/4 in jacks to hold 12 g wire though >><BR><BR>
The best reason for using Speakon connectors is that they have large surface
area 20 amp contacts and they are a locking connector. Take a look at the
contact area on a 1/4" jack/plug pair. Speakons are also available with 2, 4 or
8 contacts for single amp. bi-amp and tri/quad amp. Of all the common
connectors for speakers 1/4" is the least suitable electrically. Even XLR has a
higher current carrying capability.
Mac