Mains Compressor/Limiter Settings

Post by E. Hill
Hi all,
To avoid clipping the inputs of a Behringer DEQ2496 that is driving
left/right mains, I'm going to put an analog compressor/limiter right
before it.
For these types of brickwall limiters... Any suggestions as to the settings?
Since the clipping shouldn't happen, I was thinking about setting the
threshold right before clipping (voltage confirmed with a scope). Soft
knee, with a ratio of infinity:1, with a very fast attack. I'm debating
about the release, though.
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
Eric

Why do you need a compressor/limiter? If you are not clipping the amps you
will not clip the DEQ. You might want to do a mild cut in output from the
DEQ as it could boost your signal if you have too many/too much boost
instead of cut in your eq section.

Mike D.

George's ProSound Company

2008-10-01 02:35:55 UTC

go into the utilities of the deq and reduce the units sensitivity
George

E. Hill

2008-10-01 05:30:12 UTC

Post by George's ProSound Company
go into the utilities of the deq and reduce the units sensitivity

Hi George,

There's the range switch on the back, but there's nothing to trim the
voltage before the AD converter.

Eric

George's ProSound Company

2008-10-01 05:49:37 UTC

Post by George's ProSound Company
go into the utilities of the deq and reduce the units sensitivity

Hi George,
There's the range switch on the back, but there's nothing to trim the
voltage before the AD converter.
Eric

i will pull one of mine out tomorrowand check thatout
I thought in the utilities menu there was a sensitivity setting
but I don't know where it falls inthe deq signal chain
it seems likeit would be on the front end
George

E. Hill

2008-10-01 06:54:40 UTC

Hi George,

Post by George's ProSound Company
i will pull one of mine out tomorrowand check thatout
I thought in the utilities menu there was a sensitivity setting

There is, but it adjusts the overall gain of the EQ. It's after the AD's.

(I've verified this by driving it with a 2k signal, and then adjusting
it. The meters on the front didn't change. I didn't have a scope or
meter with me, so I couldn't look at the output.)

Post by George's ProSound Company
it seems likeit would be on the front end

The Behringer 8024 had the same problem. There was no way to trim the
voltage before the AD's.

I usually set the gain structure so that everything clips at the same
time. (The board, the eq, and the crossover - never had to worry about
clipping the amps. They've always been oversized.)

With the 8024, it was either run the board low, or put a pad before it.
I ended up using a limiter, and then used the gain control on it to trim
the voltage so that the 8024 clipped at the same time the board did. Did
all that with a scope, not abstract clip indicators.

That setup was years ago, though. I didn't remember what I had worked
out for the limiter.

Post by George's ProSound Company
but I don't know where it falls inthe deq signal chain

If you ever find a block diagram, let me know. I'd love to have one.
Unfortunately, Behringer doesn't publish block diagrams for a lot of
equipment. That's unfortunate, especially with the digital gear.

Hope you're doing well.

Eric

Phil Allison

2008-10-01 07:15:58 UTC

"E. Hill"

Post by George's ProSound Company
i will pull one of mine out tomorrowand check thatout
I thought in the utilities menu there was a sensitivity setting

There is, but it adjusts the overall gain of the EQ. It's after the AD's.

** There is a push-in switch on the back panel labelled " +12 dBu /
+22dBu".

It alters the maximum (clean) level of the INPUTS & outputs from 3.2 volts
rms to 9.8 volts rms.

Not enough for you ?

..... Phil

E. Hill

2008-10-01 08:17:25 UTC

Post by Phil Allison
** There is a push-in switch on the back panel labelled " +12 dBu /
+22dBu".
It alters the maximum (clean) level of the INPUTS & outputs from 3.2 volts
rms to 9.8 volts rms.
Not enough for you ?

The problem isn't RMS, it's peaks. I don't think it will do 13.79v peak
without digitally clipping.

I'll confirm my thoughts sometime soon, with a scope.

Eric

Phil Allison

2008-10-01 11:17:16 UTC

"E. Hill"

The problem isn't RMS, it's peaks.

** Huh ?????????????????????????????????????

Post by E. Hill
I don't think it will do 13.79v peak without digitally clipping.

** Fraid it will do just that, at the very least - wanker.

Since ANY sine wave has its peaks 41% above the rms value .

Post by E. Hill
I'll confirm my thoughts sometime soon, with a scope.

** Very clearly - there is a still a great deal of SCOPE left for

wankers like YOU to consider ...............................

Yawwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

..... Phil

Peter Larsen

2008-10-05 18:16:45 UTC

Post by Phil Allison
** There is a push-in switch on the back panel labelled " +12 dBu /
+22dBu".
It alters the maximum (clean) level of the INPUTS & outputs from
3.2 volts rms to 9.8 volts rms.
Not enough for you ?

The problem isn't RMS, it's peaks. I don't think it will do 13.79v
peak without digitally clipping.

9.8 times 1.4 = 13.72

Post by E. Hill
I'll confirm my thoughts sometime soon, with a scope.

Do that, I could be right .... Phil will surely tell you and the world if I
ain't ... O;-)

Post by E. Hill
Eric

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Eeyore

2008-10-05 21:59:34 UTC

Post by Phil Allison
** There is a push-in switch on the back panel labelled " +12 dBu /
+22dBu".
It alters the maximum (clean) level of the INPUTS & outputs from
3.2 volts rms to 9.8 volts rms.
Not enough for you ?

The problem isn't RMS, it's peaks. I don't think it will do 13.79v
peak without digitally clipping.

9.8 times 1.4 = 13.72

Post by E. Hill
I'll confirm my thoughts sometime soon, with a scope.

Do that, I could be right .... Phil will surely tell you and the world if I
ain't ... O;-)

0dBu = 0.775V rms

+22 dBu = 9.76V (rounded)

Peakk voltage = 9.766etc * sqrt(2) = 13.79V here

Graham

E. Hill

2008-10-06 07:36:01 UTC

Post by Phil Allison
** There is a push-in switch on the back panel labelled " +12 dBu /
+22dBu".
It alters the maximum (clean) level of the INPUTS & outputs from
3.2 volts rms to 9.8 volts rms.
Not enough for you ?

The problem isn't RMS, it's peaks. I don't think it will do 13.79v
peak without digitally clipping.

9.8 times 1.4 = 13.72

Post by E. Hill
I'll confirm my thoughts sometime soon, with a scope.

Do that, I could be right .... Phil will surely tell you and the world if I
ain't ... O;-)

0dBu = 0.775V rms
+22 dBu = 9.76V (rounded)
Peakk voltage = 9.766etc * sqrt(2) = 13.79V here
Graham

Wow, a time when both Peter and Graham are wrong on a math issue. ;-)

22 dBu is actually 9.75 (rounded)... The actual RMS value is 9.751594305.

Eric

Phil Allison

2008-10-06 10:49:36 UTC

"E. Hill"

Post by E. Hill
Wow, a time when both Peter and Graham are wrong on a math issue. ;-)

** FUCK OFF you PATHETIC TROLL

.... Phil

Eeyore

2008-10-06 12:37:35 UTC

Post by Phil Allison
** There is a push-in switch on the back panel labelled " +12 dBu /
+22dBu".
It alters the maximum (clean) level of the INPUTS & outputs from
3.2 volts rms to 9.8 volts rms.
Not enough for you ?

The problem isn't RMS, it's peaks. I don't think it will do 13.79v
peak without digitally clipping.

9.8 times 1.4 = 13.72

Post by E. Hill
I'll confirm my thoughts sometime soon, with a scope.

Do that, I could be right .... Phil will surely tell you and the world if I
ain't ... O;-)

0dBu = 0.775V rms
+22 dBu = 9.76V (rounded)
Peak voltage = 9.766etc * sqrt(2) = 13.79V here

Wow, a time when both Peter and Graham are wrong on a math issue. ;-)
22 dBu is actually 9.75 (rounded)... The actual RMS value is 9.751594305.

What were you taking as the value of 0dBu ?

I confess I use 0.775V without thinking about it. Mind you we were only out by one
1 digit in the 2nd decimal place. In dB terms that is so stupidly tiny as not to
be worth a mention.

Graahm

E. Hill

2008-10-06 18:39:08 UTC

Post by Phil Allison
** There is a push-in switch on the back panel labelled " +12 dBu /
+22dBu".
It alters the maximum (clean) level of the INPUTS & outputs from
3.2 volts rms to 9.8 volts rms.
Not enough for you ?

The problem isn't RMS, it's peaks. I don't think it will do 13.79v
peak without digitally clipping.

9.8 times 1.4 = 13.72

Post by E. Hill
I'll confirm my thoughts sometime soon, with a scope.

Do that, I could be right .... Phil will surely tell you and the world if I
ain't ... O;-)

0dBu = 0.775V rms
+22 dBu = 9.76V (rounded)
Peak voltage = 9.766etc * sqrt(2) = 13.79V here

Wow, a time when both Peter and Graham are wrong on a math issue. ;-)
22 dBu is actually 9.75 (rounded)... The actual RMS value is 9.751594305.

What were you taking as the value of 0dBu ?
I confess I use 0.775V without thinking about it. Mind you we were only out by one
1 digit in the 2nd decimal place. In dB terms that is so stupidly tiny as not to
be worth a mention.
Graahm

Hi Graham,

The batteries in my TI-83 are dead; I've been using an online calculator:

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm

As you mentioned, the difference in the results aren't worth mentioning.

Thanks for taking my attempt at humor well.

Eric

Eeyore

2008-10-06 19:07:01 UTC

Post by Phil Allison
** There is a push-in switch on the back panel labelled " +12 dBu /
+22dBu".
It alters the maximum (clean) level of the INPUTS & outputs from
3.2 volts rms to 9.8 volts rms.
Not enough for you ?

The problem isn't RMS, it's peaks. I don't think it will do 13.79v
peak without digitally clipping.

9.8 times 1.4 = 13.72

Post by E. Hill
I'll confirm my thoughts sometime soon, with a scope.

Do that, I could be right .... Phil will surely tell you and the world if I
ain't ... O;-)

0dBu = 0.775V rms
+22 dBu = 9.76V (rounded)
Peak voltage = 9.766etc * sqrt(2) = 13.79V here

Wow, a time when both Peter and Graham are wrong on a math issue. ;-)
22 dBu is actually 9.75 (rounded)... The actual RMS value is 9.751594305.

What were you taking as the value of 0dBu ?
I confess I use 0.775V without thinking about it. Mind you we were only out by one
1 digit in the 2nd decimal place. In dB terms that is so stupidly tiny as not to
be worth a mention.
Graahm

Hi Graham,

I use the Windows one for simple stuff like this.

Post by E. Hill
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm
As you mentioned, the difference in the results aren't worth mentioning.
Thanks for taking my attempt at humor well.

No problem !

Graham

Peter Larsen

2008-10-08 12:24:59 UTC

Post by E. Hill
Wow, a time when both Peter and Graham are wrong on a math issue. ;-)

No, we used different simplifications because exactness beyond one decimal
is irrelevant in this context. It is way too easy using calculators to get
exact values that are useless due to the overall uncertainty about what
happens in real world electronics. So what happened was that we actually
agreed.

Graham also in the real world seems to agree in my suggestion of attenuating
power amp inputs to a sensitivity of 5 volts RMS, this based on his
reference to running his board "hot". That however is a very non-simple
issue as soon as the poweramps get placed after an active cross-over .....

I still think you should put a simple diode-clipper in front of that DEQ
.... my +14 dB suggestion is btw. based on my ADR Gemini that has that as
the limiter ceiling when run flat out, made sense then and makes sense now.

It might even see active service again, I found a pair of 12" Monarch coax
units (SP-330PAX) in birch boxes ridiculously cheap when I bought roadcase
for mixer and hd24, so I figured that having event loudspeakers suitable for
storytelling and similar might come in handy and bougth them, and just
ebayed me a Yamaha P1600 for powering them at EUR 125 + shipping from
Germany. Didn't want a bigger amp even though the label on the rear of the
units says "250 watts", also for simple weight considerations and did want a
yammy because I know their predecessor to be well behaved.

Post by E. Hill
Eric

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Eeyore

2008-10-08 15:41:39 UTC

Post by E. Hill
Wow, a time when both Peter and Graham are wrong on a math issue. ;-)

Yup.

Post by Peter Larsen
Graham also in the real world seems to agree in my suggestion of attenuating
power amp inputs to a sensitivity of 5 volts RMS, this based on his
reference to running his board "hot". That however is a very non-simple
issue as soon as the poweramps get placed after an active cross-over .....

Somewhat easier using a controller where you can introduce compression too. Not
to mention a 'hard limit' on the amps. Gives the speakers a longer and safer
life.

Graham

Phildo

2008-10-09 20:33:34 UTC

Post by Eeyore
Somewhat easier using a controller where you can introduce compression too. Not
to mention a 'hard limit' on the amps. Gives the speakers a longer and safer
life.

Not if that controller will take out the speakers in the event of a power
outage.

Phildo

Eeyore

2008-10-01 09:14:24 UTC

Post by George's ProSound Company
i will pull one of mine out tomorrowand check thatout

You could even download the manual over the internet !

Phil Allison

2008-10-01 03:40:51 UTC

"Michael Dobony"

Post by E. Hill
To avoid clipping the inputs of a Behringer DEQ2496 that is driving
left/right mains, I'm going to put an analog compressor/limiter right
before it.
For these types of brickwall limiters... Any suggestions as to the settings?
Since the clipping shouldn't happen, I was thinking about setting the
threshold right before clipping (voltage confirmed with a scope). Soft
knee, with a ratio of infinity:1, with a very fast attack. I'm debating
about the release, though.

Why do you need a compressor/limiter?

** Cos he wants the added protection from *accidental* signal clipping.

Post by Michael Dobony
If you are not clipping the amps you will not clip the DEQ.

** If the amps have their own peak limiters, then it is very possible for
the DEQ's input stage to be over-driven and clip.

...... Phil

E. Hill

2008-10-01 07:44:06 UTC

Post by Phil Allison

Post by Michael Dobony
Why do you need a compressor/limiter?

** Cos he wants the added protection from *accidental* signal clipping.

:-)

Or a board that's driven hot once in awhile.

Just for the lurkers...

An analog signal can be clipped, and depending upon the situation, the
average ear won't notice. But, you take the same situation, and
digitally clip the signal, and everybody is going to notice. It's a very
harsh sound.

I had a problem the other night where a channel got slammed pretty hard.
This is one of those multi-use channels that lots of different people
use, at different times, for a short amount of time. So, the gain is set
pretty high. Anyway, it got slammed.

The channel didn't clip, and the board didn't clip. But, the DEQ clipped
badly. It was very noticeable.

Normally, that wouldn't happen, because there's a compressor on that
mic. But, it got lifted by mistake.

If a limiter was in place, I would have noticed, along with a couple of
other people in the room. Instead, everybody noticed.

A limiter right before the EQ, along with a security cover over it,
assures that digital clipping is very unlikely to happen.

Because I have more headroom in the board, than the DEQ has, I either
need to trim (lower) the voltage into the DEQ, or put a limiter on it,
or do both.

Either that, or change the gain structure of the board. (But, there's
nothing wrong with the gain structure of the board. It just has more
headroom than the DEQ.)

The best solution is to lower the voltage going into the DEQ. The
easiest way to do that is with the output gain control on a
compressor/limiter. (Or, a fixed pad would even be simpler.) But, couple
that with the limiter functionality, and I have a gain structure where
the board clips at the same time the AD's in the EQ does, and digital
clipping will never happen.

Eric

Eeyore

2008-10-01 09:19:17 UTC

Post by Phil Allison

Post by Michael Dobony
Why do you need a compressor/limiter?

** Cos he wants the added protection from *accidental* signal clipping.

:-)
Or a board that's driven hot once in awhile.

And that's exactly the point. Some people do like to mix hot. I do to a
little extent myself. Up to +10 on the meters for example.

Graham

Michael Dobony

2008-10-01 14:55:07 UTC

Post by Phil Allison

Post by Michael Dobony
Why do you need a compressor/limiter?

** Cos he wants the added protection from *accidental* signal clipping.

A use I was condemned for desiring.

Post by E. Hill
:-)
Or a board that's driven hot once in awhile.
Just for the lurkers...
An analog signal can be clipped, and depending upon the situation, the
average ear won't notice. But, you take the same situation, and
digitally clip the signal, and everybody is going to notice. It's a very
harsh sound.
I had a problem the other night where a channel got slammed pretty hard.
This is one of those multi-use channels that lots of different people
use, at different times, for a short amount of time. So, the gain is set
pretty high. Anyway, it got slammed.
The channel didn't clip, and the board didn't clip. But, the DEQ clipped
badly. It was very noticeable.

That seems a little odd. I would be putting the compressor on the multiuse
channel to moderate its volume relative to the rest of the channels.

It seems to me that George is correct. The DEQ has a compressor built in,
but I am not sure where in the signal path this goes and if it will protect
the unit from clipping.

Post by E. Hill
Normally, that wouldn't happen, because there's a compressor on that
mic. But, it got lifted by mistake.
If a limiter was in place, I would have noticed, along with a couple of
other people in the room. Instead, everybody noticed.

Why not put it back on that channel?

Post by E. Hill
A limiter right before the EQ, along with a security cover over it,
assures that digital clipping is very unlikely to happen.
Because I have more headroom in the board, than the DEQ has, I either
need to trim (lower) the voltage into the DEQ, or put a limiter on it,
or do both.
Either that, or change the gain structure of the board. (But, there's
nothing wrong with the gain structure of the board. It just has more
headroom than the DEQ.)

I'm having trouble with connecting to the site so I can't find the input
sensitivity of the DEQ right now. I am not having any such trouble with my
DEQ, so don't know what is going on. I keep normal levels at 0/unity. I
don't normally go much above 15 or so, but occasionally spike to the mid
20's and don't have any problems from my older compact Mackie 1202 clipping
the DEQ.

Post by E. Hill
The best solution is to lower the voltage going into the DEQ. The
easiest way to do that is with the output gain control on a
compressor/limiter. (Or, a fixed pad would even be simpler.) But, couple
that with the limiter functionality, and I have a gain structure where
the board clips at the same time the AD's in the EQ does, and digital
clipping will never happen.
Eric

E. Hill

2008-10-01 17:02:32 UTC

Post by Michael Dobony
It seems to me that George is correct. The DEQ has a compressor built in,
but I am not sure where in the signal path this goes and if it will protect
the unit from clipping.

It doesn't do anything to keep the ADC's from being overdriven.

Why not put it back on that channel?

Yes, I pressed the IN button as soon as I determined what the problem was.

Eric

Eeyore

2008-10-01 08:49:37 UTC

Post by Phil Allison
"Michael Dobony"

Why do you need a compressor/limiter?

** Cos he wants the added protection from *accidental* signal clipping.

Post by Michael Dobony
If you are not clipping the amps you will not clip the DEQ.

** If the amps have their own peak limiters, then it is very possible for
the DEQ's input stage to be over-driven and clip.

Yes, and that would 'square off' the signal causing likely damage.

Good point Phil.

Mind you, you'd have to be running a really hot mix to do that (not saying
some might not).

Graham

Eeyore

2008-10-01 08:37:10 UTC

Sorry Mike, you're showing your newbyness again. It's *dead easy* to clip amps.
Thankfully most amps these days of any repute have inbuilt limiters anyway which
resolves the major problem. DO NOT defeat them by setting an external or internal
switch. They're there to be your friend.

Graham

Phildo

2008-10-01 14:14:40 UTC

Post by Michael Dobony
Why do you need a compressor/limiter? If you are not clipping the amps you
will not clip the DEQ. You might want to do a mild cut in output from the
DEQ as it could boost your signal if you have too many/too much boost
instead of cut in your eq section.

Yet again DeBonehead shows why he should be reading and learning instead of
trying to dispense advice as he clearly does not have a clue.

Why don't you spend your time in your other favourite pursuits such as
trying to "fix" homosexuals and leave us to discuss sound?

Phildo

p.s. watch the South Park episode "Cartman Sucks". I think you might learn
something

Eeyore

2008-10-01 14:31:28 UTC

Post by Phildo

Post by Michael Dobony
Why do you need a compressor/limiter? If you are not clipping the amps
you will not clip the DEQ. You might want to do a mild cut in output from

the

Post by Michael Dobony
DEQ as it could boost your signal if you have too many/too much boost
instead of cut in your eq section.

Yet again DeBonehead shows why he should be reading and learning instead of
trying to dispense advice as he clearly does not have a clue.

And you again show what a mean bastard you are.

Graham

Phildo

2008-10-01 14:39:21 UTC

Post by Phildo

Post by Michael Dobony
Why do you need a compressor/limiter? If you are not clipping the amps
you will not clip the DEQ. You might want to do a mild cut in output from

the

Post by Michael Dobony
DEQ as it could boost your signal if you have too many/too much boost
instead of cut in your eq section.

Yet again DeBonehead shows why he should be reading and learning instead of
trying to dispense advice as he clearly does not have a clue.

And you again show what a mean bastard you are.

Not mean at all, I just cannot stand bigoted self-important pricks like
Bony, especially when he posts crap like the above.

And you again show that you will say anything just to have a dig at me.
Surely you should be out looking for a job to pay the lawyer's bills?

Phildo

Tim Perry

2008-10-01 03:40:39 UTC

LEVEL 0 Db

Post by E. Hill
Since the clipping shouldn't happen, I was thinking about setting the
threshold right before clipping (voltage confirmed with a scope). Soft
knee, with a ratio of infinity:1, with a very fast attack. I'm debating
about the release, though.

If you are going to do this you will find fast release works best.

Post by E. Hill
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
Eric

Eric, if you are worried about digital "crunch" don't worry. Unless you have
something very strange driving the DEQ there should be no problem.

E. Hill

2008-10-01 05:15:48 UTC

Post by Tim Perry
If you are going to do this you will find fast release works best.

Thanks.

Eric

Eeyore

2008-10-01 08:45:17 UTC

settings?
LEVEL 0 Db

No such setting unless Uli's clowns did it that way. It's dB btw not Db. dB are
always relative to a reference. Possibly I assume you mean 0 dBu ? Possibly
misrepresented as 0 dBm.

Yet many (most) amps don't clip until +4dBu input into 8 ohms or around +3dBu
into 4 ohms. You really need to read their data sheets.

Graham

Rupert

2008-10-01 04:05:13 UTC

The DEQ has a +22dBu maximum input capability. If you are using it
with a mixer, you won't have to worry about overdriving it as much if
you use the main inserts instead of putting at the main outputs with
most desks The internal gain structure generally doesn't run as hot as
the main outs. Many desks these days put out up to +25 to +28dBu, so
that can be a problem for many EQ's if you run your board hot. If you
insist on using an in-line limiter, you would be hard pressed to find
a better unit than the Aphex Dominator II 720:

http://www.aphex.com/720_722.htm

You'll find these used in a lot of broadcast facilities for TV and
radio as well as live sound and recording. You can find them used on
Ebay for about 1/4 the list price of which is $1200 USD.

Rupert

E. Hill

2008-10-01 06:33:59 UTC

Post by Rupert
Many desks these days put out up to +25 to +28dBu, so
that can be a problem for many EQ's if you run your board hot.

On occasion we do. Not on a regular basis, but once in awhile.

The AD's on the DEQ will clip long before the board will.

Eric

0***@bellsouth.net

2008-10-01 12:08:17 UTC

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if you use the main inserts instead of putting at the main outputs
with most desks The internal gain structure generally doesn't run
as hot as the main outs. Many desks these days put out up to +25 to
+28dBu, so that can be a problem for many EQ's if you run your
board hot. If you insist on using an in-line limiter, you would be
http://www.aphex.com/720_722.htm
You'll find these used in a lot of broadcast facilities for TV and
radio as well as live sound and recording. You can find them used on
Ebay for about 1/4 the list price of which is $1200 USD.

I was just going to suggest the same unit when I saw his
query. GLad I read a little further before posting.

HE might have a desire to use the main outs, and the inserts
for something else though, don't know about his setup.
HOwever, the dOminator is always a good choice, it is a true
limiter. FOlks like SCott DOrsey can explain it better than
I after a day of writing an operations manual and other
chores, but often a compressor/limiter for general use as
either/or won't do this job as effectively as the dominator,
which is a damnede good brick wall limiter.

Richard webb,
replace anything before at with elspider

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--- Benjamin Franklin, NOvember 1755 from the
Historical review of Pennsylvania

Eeyore

2008-10-01 12:25:28 UTC

Post by 0***@bellsouth.net

No substitute for a brick wall limiter. Many amps include something close to
that as standard now.

Graham

E. Hill

2008-10-01 16:38:19 UTC

Post by Eeyore
No substitute for a brick wall limiter. Many amps include something close to
that as standard now.

I've always been of the opinion that digital gear should have one before
the ADC's. Especially for anything that's used in the live realm.

Eric

Eeyore

2008-10-01 17:50:43 UTC

Post by Eeyore
No substitute for a brick wall limiter. Many amps include something close to
that as standard now.

I've always been of the opinion that digital gear should have one before
the ADC's. Especially for anything that's used in the live realm.

A complete irrelevance almost.

What's wrong with analogue gear btw ?

Graham

E. Hill

2008-10-01 18:08:38 UTC

Post by Eeyore
No substitute for a brick wall limiter. Many amps include something close to
that as standard now.

I've always been of the opinion that digital gear should have one before
the ADC's. Especially for anything that's used in the live realm.

A complete irrelevance almost.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match, but it's not irrelevant to
me. Accidentally overdriving an ADC results in a very harsh, very
noticeable sound. Accidentally clipping an analog signal results in a
situation that needs to be resolved, but the vast majority of a crowd
won't notice.

Post by Eeyore
What's wrong with analogue gear btw ?

Not a thing. Equipment is just a tool for a job. We pick the right tool
for the job, within whatever constraints we have.

Without trying to be snippy... There's no 1U analog piece of equipment
that has a 31-band EQ, 10-bands of parametric, and a limiter in it. (The
rest of the DEQ is fluff, for our application.)

Eric

Eeyore

2008-10-01 18:35:14 UTC

Post by Eeyore
No substitute for a brick wall limiter. Many amps include something close to
that as standard now.

I've always been of the opinion that digital gear should have one before
the ADC's. Especially for anything that's used in the live realm.

A complete irrelevance almost.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match, but it's not irrelevant to
me. Accidentally overdriving an ADC results in a very harsh, very
noticeable sound.

Well don't do it then ! Is that too hard to understand ?

Graham

Phildo

2008-10-05 13:17:29 UTC

Post by Eeyore
What's wrong with analogue gear btw ?

Spoken like a true luddite.

Phildo

E. Hill

2008-10-01 17:10:19 UTC

Post by 0***@bellsouth.net
HE might have a desire to use the main outs, and the inserts
for something else though, don't know about his setup.

Unless we're doing an event outside the building, I keep the drive rack
on stage with the amps. Don't have room at FOH for another rack.

Anyway... The DEQ is being driven with the main outs. From there, to a
DCX via AES/EBU. From there, to the amps.

Eric

Eeyore

2008-10-01 17:49:27 UTC

Post by 0***@bellsouth.net
HE might have a desire to use the main outs, and the inserts
for something else though, don't know about his setup.

Unless we're doing an event outside the building, I keep the drive rack
on stage with the amps. Don't have room at FOH for another rack.
Anyway... The DEQ is being driven with the main outs. From there, to a
DCX via AES/EBU. From there, to the amps.

Plese don't excessively trim the headers, we have no idea who you're
answering to.

Graham

Eeyore

2008-10-01 08:10:05 UTC

A soft compression before the hard limit is advisable.

Would need more info about your rig and your possible candidate equipment to
make a better suggestion.

Graham

Rupert

2008-10-01 18:11:54 UTC