Powered speakers - Mackie vz Yamaha vs Behringer vs JBL

[timbo]

hi guys, need some opinions on the following powered speakers:


Mackie SRM450 (12" 2-way)
Yamaha MS400 (15" 2-way)
Behringer B300 (15" 2-way)
JBL EON15 G2 (15" 2-way)

anyone out there had much experience with these speakers? I'm trying to put
together a small pa system for a local university to be used in their cafe
for lunchtime gigs etc.

any help greatly appreciated,

cheers,

timbo.

[liquidator]

Post by timbo
Mackie SRM450 (12" 2-way)

Not bad made by RCF.

Post by timbo
JBL EON15 G2 (15" 2-way)

Avoid like the Plague.

Generally (not always) 12's sound better for voice and acoustic
instruments.While I recommend the RCF/Mackie speakers I do NOT recommend
Mackie electronics.

[Steve]

Post by liquidator

Post by timbo
Mackie SRM450 (12" 2-way)

Not bad made by RCF.

Post by timbo
JBL EON15 G2 (15" 2-way)

Avoid like the Plague.

Not only do I prefer these EONs, but all my friends who bought them love
theirs as well. I'm only speaking of the Eon 15 G2, as the first
generation EON was lacking. The Mackies were my choice until I worked
with the G2s.

Now there are also better, more expensive powered speakers than these
(check out the Yorkville), but the Mackie and JBL are more middle of the
road as far as pricing for powered speakers.

I'd avoid the Behringer based just on their quality control. If money
is a major object, they are the cheapest, and sound it, but the world is
full of compromises, and you have to listen to each speaker and decide
just where you will make your compromise. Price vs sound, it's been
going on forever since they hooked up the first 2 tin cans with string.

Post by liquidator
Generally (not always) 12's sound better for voice and acoustic
instruments.

It's nice to have some lower end in the vocals, gives more body to the
sound, so I could also say, Generally (not always), 15's sound better
for voice and acoustic instruments.

[liquidator]

Post by Steve

Post by liquidator

Post by timbo
JBL EON15 G2 (15" 2-way)

Avoid like the Plague.

Not only do I prefer these EONs, but all my friends who bought them love
theirs as well. I'm only speaking of the Eon 15 G2, as the first
generation EON was lacking.

We'll just have to disagree. I think the Eons are horrid. And friends
opinions don't count. I have heard many friends compliment each other on
absolutely terrible sound.

[timbo]

Post by liquidator

Post by Steve

Post by liquidator

Post by timbo
JBL EON15 G2 (15" 2-way)

Avoid like the Plague.

Not only do I prefer these EONs, but all my friends who bought them love
theirs as well. I'm only speaking of the Eon 15 G2, as the first
generation EON was lacking.

We'll just have to disagree. I think the Eons are horrid. And friends
opinions don't count. I have heard many friends compliment each other on
absolutely terrible sound.

there's a guy in town here (warrnambool, vic, australia) who does sound at a
local pub, & his mixes are atrocious... you know it's bad when you can't
understand the singer making comments between songs - "thank you" sounds
like "mmmmmfmmmmmfff"...

thanks for the replies ;)

cheers,

timbo.

[Mike Dobony]

Post by timbo

Post by liquidator

Post by Steve

Post by liquidator

Post by timbo
JBL EON15 G2 (15" 2-way)

Avoid like the Plague.

Not only do I prefer these EONs, but all my friends who bought them love
theirs as well. I'm only speaking of the Eon 15 G2, as the first
generation EON was lacking.

We'll just have to disagree. I think the Eons are horrid. And friends
opinions don't count. I have heard many friends compliment each other on
absolutely terrible sound.

there's a guy in town here (warrnambool, vic, australia) who does sound at a
local pub, & his mixes are atrocious... you know it's bad when you can't
understand the singer making comments between songs - "thank you" sounds
like "mmmmmfmmmmmfff"...

Sounds like the guy who first did fast food drive-thrus! Don't know if I'm
just learning the new language better from experience or they are actually
semi-legible.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

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Post by timbo
thanks for the replies ;)
cheers,
timbo.

[Bobster123]

Post by Steve
Now there are also better, more expensive powered speakers than these
(check out the Yorkville), but the Mackie and JBL are more middle of the
road as far as pricing for powered speakers.

ElectroVoice has some new powered speakers out that look like they will really
kick. Check out the sXa360- looks like the SX300 but with a 500 watt amp and
only about 40 lbs. Also- the sXa250 is very lightweight and compact, but adds
a 15" woofer. Not extremely loud, but should be OK for a lunch crowd
environment.

Also look at the FBT's- a bit pricey, but lightweight and sound very good.

[timbo]

Post by Bobster123

Post by Steve
Now there are also better, more expensive powered speakers than these
(check out the Yorkville), but the Mackie and JBL are more middle of the
road as far as pricing for powered speakers.

ElectroVoice has some new powered speakers out that look like they will really
kick. Check out the sXa360- looks like the SX300 but with a 500 watt amp and
only about 40 lbs. Also- the sXa250 is very lightweight and compact, but adds
a 15" woofer. Not extremely loud, but should be OK for a lunch crowd
environment.
Also look at the FBT's- a bit pricey, but lightweight and sound very good.

cool, i'll have a look at those too.

cheers,

timbo.

[Roar Sørli]

Post by Bobster123
Also look at the FBT's- a bit pricey, but lightweight and sound very good.

I use the FBT MaxX 4a, very light to carry, nice sound. I once was forced to
play tru a pair of Eons 15 G1, and used one of my mains as monitor. That
night I felt sorry for the audience, listening to that terrible sound. I
felt lucky myself having very nice sound, I'll have to buy myself a FBT as
monitor.

[Phildo]

Post by Steve
I'd avoid the Behringer based just on their quality control.

And I would advise you to get up to speed on things. Nothing wrong with
Behringer QC these days.

Phildo

[Steve]

Post by Phildo

Post by Steve
I'd avoid the Behringer based just on their quality control.

And I would advise you to get up to speed on things. Nothing wrong with
Behringer QC these days.
Phildo

I am up to speed. I just had to return a Behringer mixer days after I
bought it. One input had a buzzing sound.
Now I'm pretty sure that most mixers they sell are not defective, but I
couldn't bring myself to bring it back and get another one. I got a
Yamaha board instead.

My response was based on my own experience from 2 weeks ago.

Your experience is based on what, heresay?

Now if I wanted to base my opinion on heresay, I'd say their quality
control was crap based on all the posts I've read on Harmony Central's
users forums. Every go there and read about the problems with these
Behringer powered speakers and keyboard amplifiers in the "Live Sound"
and "Keyboard" Forums?

I didn't think so. If you did, you'd have to have a different opinion.

In a slight defense of what you said, I have heard that their QC is
better, but in reality, better compared to what?
Sorry, but it's just not good enough yet to make the statement that
there is nothing wrong with it these days.


Steve

[Phildo]

Post by Steve

Post by Phildo

Post by Steve
I'd avoid the Behringer based just on their quality control.

And I would advise you to get up to speed on things. Nothing wrong with
Behringer QC these days.
Phildo

I am up to speed. I just had to return a Behringer mixer days after I
bought it. One input had a buzzing sound.
Now I'm pretty sure that most mixers they sell are not defective, but I
couldn't bring myself to bring it back and get another one. I got a
Yamaha board instead.

What model mixer was it? Was it an old stock one that had been sitting
around in the shop for months? Why on earth would you want the Yamaha small
format mixers?

Post by Steve
My response was based on my own experience from 2 weeks ago.
Your experience is based on what, heresay?

A lot more than that. You should read this newsgroup a bit more often.

Post by Steve
Now if I wanted to base my opinion on heresay, I'd say their quality
control was crap based on all the posts I've read on Harmony Central's
users forums. Every go there and read about the problems with these
Behringer powered speakers and keyboard amplifiers in the "Live Sound"
and "Keyboard" Forums?

Nah, those forums are full of muso morons and best avoided.

Post by Steve
I didn't think so. If you did, you'd have to have a different opinion.
In a slight defense of what you said, I have heard that their QC is
better, but in reality, better compared to what?

Behringer now have their own factory and do not use OEM like everyone else.
Their build quality is far better than it used to be so there are far less
failures at that stage. They have their own in-house QC and since that has
been implimented then the number of duff products shipping through is better
than the majority of manufacturers who build their gear in China. You asked
compared to what, well basically it's everybody else, including the yamaha
you went with.

Post by Steve
Sorry, but it's just not good enough yet to make the statement that
there is nothing wrong with it these days.

As I said, you really should get up to speed. Behringer's QC is up to and
exceeds any company coming out of China so it is very unfair just to single
them out because you had one bad experience.

Phildo

[ChuxGarage]

I'm now retired from the music business, but as recently as a couple of years
ago, I was a Behringer dealer. We had no more problems with it than with
anyone else. Truth be known, we probably had less problems than with a lot of
"highly respected" brands. When we did have problems, they were usually fairly
awkward due to a lack of Behringer service centers. I understand that the
service situation has improved. To solve most problems we usually just gave
the customer a new piece and sent the defective one back to Behringer for
credit. That wasn't always easy for us, but it was the best way to take care
of the customer.

The people who bought my business are still selling Behringer. They are very
happy with the line, and report few problems. I dropped by the store last week
and they were telling me what awesome stuff it was, and of course they were
amazed by how reasonably priced it is. The guys who run the PA hire section of
the company commented that they get lots of riders that say "No Mackie," but
they seldom see one that says "No Behringer." It seems the stuff is fairly
well accepted in the touring world.

It is amazing to me how many Behringer products there are. When we first
started handling it, it was basically limiters, gates and effects.

I own a lot of Behringer equipment myself. I use it in the studios of the
local radio station that I now operate. We also have a small Behringer PA
using their powered speakers. All of it has been fine, and nothing has been
defective out of the box. We've only had one problem, and that was caused by
a direct lightning strike…. That was hardly Behringer's fault. Since the
piece that blew up has a street price of under $100.00 I just gave it a decent
burial in the dumpster and replaced it with a new one. The stuff is truly
disposable.

Is it as good as, ATI, Neve, Meyer, Midas, Orban, etc.? Of course not. But
at a mere fraction of the cost of more serious products, it does give a lot of
people access to the type of equipment they otherwise couldn't afford. And it
is a LOT better than most "entry level" equipment. It wasn't that long ago that
you couldn't buy this kind of stuff at any price, much less at the bargain
basement prices of today.

You live in amazing times for a sound person.

Chuck Conrad

[Jimmy Lee]

I bought the SRM450 with high expectation. They are not that good. I am
disappointed. Turn them on, and you will hear a distracting white noise -
even with no inputs. They would be okay for live, but for using them as a
live monitor in the studio - NO WAY. The more I know about Mackie, the more
I think they are full of smoke and mirrors. I have always liked Yamaha gear.
I'll bet those MS400 speakers are pretty damn good.

Oh yes - the Mackie's require you to have XLR inputs. There is no unbalanced
1/4" input on the back. It's a real pain in the ass.
.

Post by timbo
Mackie SRM450 (12" 2-way)
Yamaha MS400 (15" 2-way)
Behringer B300 (15" 2-way)
JBL EON15 G2 (15" 2-way)
anyone out there had much experience with these speakers? I'm trying to put
together a small pa system for a local university to be used in their cafe
for lunchtime gigs etc.
any help greatly appreciated,
cheers,
timbo.

[Tim S Kemp]

Post by timbo
Mackie SRM450 (12" 2-way)
Yamaha MS400 (15" 2-way)
Behringer B300 (15" 2-way)
JBL EON15 G2 (15" 2-way)
anyone out there had much experience with these speakers? I'm trying to put
together a small pa system for a local university to be used in their cafe
for lunchtime gigs etc.

Out of those, the mackies are the best for vox, the JBL best for playback.
However you'll be better with the dB opera 412 for vox / acoustic stuff,
goes louder and sounds clearer than the four you list. The 415 is good too
but for me (for whom 10" is as big as a mid driver should be) any 2 way 15"
box is too much of a comprimise, either your ragging the comp driver to
death or the mids are beaming horrible from the 15.

Buy an amp, get some Turbo TXD121s or Martin Blackline F12 or EAW FRz and
listen to the difference. Both are a bit bass light but the clarity and
presence will amaze you next to any of the plastic powered boxes.

[king kong]

Post by Tim S Kemp

Mackie SRM450 (12" 2-way) Yamaha MS400 (15" 2-way) Behringer B300
(15" 2-way) JBL EON15 G2 (15" 2-way)
anyone out there had much experience with these speakers? I'm
trying to

put

together a small pa system for a local university to be used in
their cafe for lunchtime gigs etc.

Out of those, the mackies are the best for vox, the JBL best for
playback. However you'll be better with the dB opera 412 for vox /
acoustic stuff, goes louder and sounds clearer than the four you
list. The 415 is good too but for me (for whom 10" is as big as a mid
driver should be) any 2 way 15" box is too much of a comprimise,
either your ragging the comp driver to death or the mids are beaming
horrible from the 15.
Buy an amp, get some Turbo TXD121s or Martin Blackline F12 or EAW FRz
and listen to the difference. Both are a bit bass light but the
clarity and presence will amaze you next to any of the plastic
powered boxes.

Or if you have the money, get Meyer sound CQ-2's. It's a powered 15x2
box, but its not cheap. I wouldn't do too heavy a band with these
speakers, but they are great for talking head type stuff. On veteran's
day last month, I did a show at the Coca-Cola world headquarters with
Former President Bush, sr. "SheDaisy" a country music sister-act played
a few songs. We had 2 CQ-2's on top of a M3D sub on each side, and it
was almost too loud for the room, which was a 1000 seat theatre. Sorry
if this sounds like a Meyer Sound ad. But I like their product.

[Paul Matthews]

Post by Tim S Kemp
Out of those, the mackies are the best for vox, the JBL best for playback.
However you'll be better with the dB opera 412 for vox / acoustic stuff,
goes louder and sounds clearer than the four you list.

Cheaper than the mackies too.

[Paul Braun]

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:25:15 -0000, "Tim S Kemp"

Post by Tim S Kemp
Out of those, the mackies are the best for vox, the JBL best for playback.
However you'll be better with the dB opera 412 for vox / acoustic stuff,
goes louder and sounds clearer than the four you list. The 415 is good too
but for me (for whom 10" is as big as a mid driver should be) any 2 way 15"
box is too much of a comprimise, either your ragging the comp driver to
death or the mids are beaming horrible from the 15.

OK, I'm interested, since I'm planning on putting together a small
acoustic rig and trying to find business this summer. I was looking
at the Mackies, but the Operas sound intriguing.

2 questions:

1) How come the 415's are cheaper than the 412's?

2) Anyone on the list here a US dealer or know if there's one in the
Chicago area where I can hear a pair? dB's website just lists the
main US office. Oh, sure, I could call them and ask. But I'm here
tonight, and they're not.

Thanks!

Paul

[Hubert Barth]

Post by Paul Braun
1) How come the 415's are cheaper than the 412's?

The 412 has higher quality drivers (18sound / B&C).
The power block is identical except for the xover.

regards

[Tim S Kemp]

Post by Paul Braun
1) How come the 415's are cheaper than the 412's?

Popularity? Certainly in the UK the 412 is slightly cheaper.

[Mike Dobony]

Post by timbo
Mackie SRM450 (12" 2-way)
Yamaha MS400 (15" 2-way)
Behringer B300 (15" 2-way)
JBL EON15 G2 (15" 2-way)
anyone out there had much experience with these speakers? I'm trying to put
together a small pa system for a local university to be used in their cafe
for lunchtime gigs etc.
any help greatly appreciated,

Listen to each one. Buy the floor models. You never know what you will get
from a box. Buying powered speaker or powered mixers from a factory box or
mail order/internet are like playing the lottery. Players lose more money.
The floor units may sound great, but who knows about the boxed unit or the
unheard unit. When I hear a buzz, hiss, white noise, etc., the first thing
I look for is a powered mixer or speaker. Many times this is the cause.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

Remove .spamnot to respond by email

Post by timbo
cheers,
timbo.

[bwaarp]

i've used the mackies occasionally, the eons a lot, and many of the other
usual suspects (ev sx 1/2/300 etc)
i have never and i mean NEVER, listened to the mackies without grimacing and
leaving the room. they are one of the loudest plastic speakers around, but
this tends to be crass and unpleasant sounding to achieve that loud effect,
the eons i found to be a bit less unpleasant, but i'd personally choose an
ev over either of them for cost, or the blackline f12 for quality. ive never
understood why people buy the mackies, i suppose they've got their marketing
sorted but surely it cant be just me that thinks theyre crap?

[r***@eml.cc]

Post by bwaarp
i've used the mackies occasionally, the eons a lot, and many of the other
usual suspects (ev sx 1/2/300 etc)
i have never and i mean NEVER, listened to the mackies without grimacing and
leaving the room. they are one of the loudest plastic speakers around, but
this tends to be crass and unpleasant sounding to achieve that loud effect,
the eons i found to be a bit less unpleasant, but i'd personally choose an
ev over either of them for cost, or the blackline f12 for quality. ive never
understood why people buy the mackies, i suppose they've got their marketing
sorted but surely it cant be just me that thinks theyre crap?

I've had exactly the same experience with the 450's.
And I run into them often. The rest of their speakers
are tolerable. Barely.

[Paul Matthews]

Post by r***@eml.cc

Post by bwaarp
i have never and i mean NEVER, listened to the mackies without grimacing and
leaving the room.

and

Post by r***@eml.cc
I've had exactly the same experience with the 450's.

I have been contemplating these comments for a little while.

Given the typical buyer of mackie gear, How much of the issues are operator
related? I run SRM450s and SRS1500s, and they sound OK, but without a little
tweaking they were rather bright.

I suspect there will be a few rigs out there without an EQ, and many will have
been set up from the stage...

[Mike Ellis]

I hear this mackie bashing all day long. Blah Blah. I have two SRM450's and
I absolutely love them. I play solo acoustic w/ vocals and occasionally run
a band through them. I never stop receiving comments about how good the
sound quality is. If you spend a couple minutes to tweak it out, they can be
great. This is especially true for acoustic music because the 450's are
inherently bright sounding. And here's the kicker of it all...........I use
a mackie CFX board too!!!!!!! I'm not trying to mic up the Dave Matthews
Band through the damn things. Just fill up a small club with clean sound.
And for me,,,,they're great!.
Mike

Post by Paul Matthews

Post by r***@eml.cc

Post by bwaarp
i have never and i mean NEVER, listened to the mackies without grimacing and
leaving the room.

and

Post by r***@eml.cc
I've had exactly the same experience with the 450's.

I have been contemplating these comments for a little while.
Given the typical buyer of mackie gear, How much of the issues are operator
related? I run SRM450s and SRS1500s, and they sound OK, but without a little
tweaking they were rather bright.
I suspect there will be a few rigs out there without an EQ, and many will have
been set up from the stage...
--
Paul Matthews
http://www.hepcats.co.uk

[David Duffy]

Post by Mike Dobony
Listen to each one. Buy the floor models. You never know what you will get
from a box. Buying powered speaker or powered mixers from a factory box or
mail order/internet are like playing the lottery. Players lose more money.
The floor units may sound great, but who knows about the boxed unit or the
unheard unit. When I hear a buzz, hiss, white noise, etc., the first thing
I look for is a powered mixer or speaker. Many times this is the cause.

So you're saying that the brand new one out of the box may
say sound like crap compared to the showroom demo stock of
the same brand and model?
David...

[Mike Dobony]

Post by David Duffy

Post by Mike Dobony
Listen to each one. Buy the floor models. You never know what you will get
from a box. Buying powered speaker or powered mixers from a factory box or
mail order/internet are like playing the lottery. Players lose more money.
The floor units may sound great, but who knows about the boxed unit or the
unheard unit. When I hear a buzz, hiss, white noise, etc., the first thing
I look for is a powered mixer or speaker. Many times this is the cause.

So you're saying that the brand new one out of the box may
say sound like crap compared to the showroom demo stock of
the same brand and model?
David...

Happens a lot. The ones on the floor sound great, but the ones from the box
might not. Only saying that you can't tell what the one in the box will
sound like. I have heard powered speakers at the store and new ones that
others have bought. The ones in the store sounded clean. Occasionally the
new ones out of the box (same model) had that dreaded 60hz hum. The design
might be okay, but manufacturing techniques seem to be rather sloppy.
Because of that, if for some weird reason I actually wanted to get a set of
powered speakers I would insist on getting the ones from the floor. That
way I know that they were manufactured ok. That is why I have never
recommend powered speakers, real world experience. That is also why when I
hear a hum the first thing I look for is powered speakers or powered mixer.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

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[David Duffy]

Post by Mike Dobony

Post by David Duffy
So you're saying that the brand new one out of the box may
say sound like crap compared to the showroom demo stock of
the same brand and model?
David...

Happens a lot. The ones on the floor sound great, but the ones from the box
might not. Only saying that you can't tell what the one in the box will
sound like. I have heard powered speakers at the store and new ones that
others have bought. The ones in the store sounded clean. Occasionally the
new ones out of the box (same model) had that dreaded 60hz hum. The design
might be okay, but manufacturing techniques seem to be rather sloppy.
Because of that, if for some weird reason I actually wanted to get a set of
powered speakers I would insist on getting the ones from the floor. That
way I know that they were manufactured ok. That is why I have never
recommend powered speakers, real world experience. That is also why when I
hear a hum the first thing I look for is powered speakers or powered mixer.

Sounds like complete horse shit to me.
But hey, that's just my opinion! :-)
David...

[Mike Dobony]

Post by David Duffy

Post by Mike Dobony

Post by David Duffy
So you're saying that the brand new one out of the box may
say sound like crap compared to the showroom demo stock of
the same brand and model?
David...

Happens a lot. The ones on the floor sound great, but the ones from the box
might not. Only saying that you can't tell what the one in the box will
sound like. I have heard powered speakers at the store and new ones that
others have bought. The ones in the store sounded clean. Occasionally the
new ones out of the box (same model) had that dreaded 60hz hum. The design
might be okay, but manufacturing techniques seem to be rather sloppy.
Because of that, if for some weird reason I actually wanted to get a set of
powered speakers I would insist on getting the ones from the floor.

That

Post by David Duffy

Post by Mike Dobony
way I know that they were manufactured ok. That is why I have never
recommend powered speakers, real world experience. That is also why when I
hear a hum the first thing I look for is powered speakers or powered mixer.

Sounds like complete horse shit to me.
But hey, that's just my opinion! :-)
David...

That is my experience. If you think reality is horse shit, oh well. You
are entitled to your opinion.

[David Duffy]

Post by Mike Dobony

Post by David Duffy

Post by Mike Dobony

Post by David Duffy
So you're saying that the brand new one out of the box may
say sound like crap compared to the showroom demo stock of
the same brand and model?
David...

Happens a lot. The ones on the floor sound great, but the ones from the

box

Post by David Duffy

Post by Mike Dobony
might not. Only saying that you can't tell what the one in the box will
sound like. I have heard powered speakers at the store and new ones

that

Post by David Duffy

Post by Mike Dobony
others have bought. The ones in the store sounded clean. Occasionally

the

Post by David Duffy

Post by Mike Dobony
new ones out of the box (same model) had that dreaded 60hz hum. The

design

Post by David Duffy

Post by Mike Dobony
might be okay, but manufacturing techniques seem to be rather sloppy.
Because of that, if for some weird reason I actually wanted to get a set

of

Post by David Duffy

Post by Mike Dobony
powered speakers I would insist on getting the ones from the floor.

That

Post by David Duffy

Post by Mike Dobony
way I know that they were manufactured ok. That is why I have never
recommend powered speakers, real world experience. That is also why

when I

Post by David Duffy

Post by Mike Dobony
hear a hum the first thing I look for is powered speakers or powered

mixer.

Post by David Duffy
Sounds like complete horse shit to me.
But hey, that's just my opinion! :-)
David...

That is my experience. If you think reality is horse shit, oh well. You
are entitled to your opinion.

Oh hang on, this is M.D. reality we're talking about?
Like I said, complete horse shit. If you can hear the
difference between different serial numbered powered
speakers then I think you need to remove that foil cap
you're wearing. :-) Different models/manufacturers is
a different matter. Come on Mike, get real will you.
David...

[Tim S Kemp]

Post by Mike Dobony
That is my experience. If you think reality is horse shit, oh well. You
are entitled to your opinion.

If powered speakers from a reputable supplier are noisy (hiss/hum) then
either (a) your gain structure is really messed up or (b) they're faulty.

Even Eons and SRM450s are quiet. Remember you only need the volume control
at 1/4 to 1/2 to drive them full with the output from most mixers.



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[David Duffy]

Post by Tim S Kemp

Post by Mike Dobony
That is my experience. If you think reality is horse shit, oh well. You
are entitled to your opinion.

If powered speakers from a reputable supplier are noisy (hiss/hum) then
either (a) your gain structure is really messed up or (b) they're faulty.
Even Eons and SRM450s are quiet. Remember you only need the volume control
at 1/4 to 1/2 to drive them full with the output from most mixers.

Exactly. Why do some people run the damn things at 3/4 and above
on the input gain and have the mixer barely sending any signal
to them? Talk about bad gain structure. All too often too! :-)
I have heard powered boxes that were noisy (mainly hiss) even at
the lowest gain setting. It was some time ago and don't recall
what brand they were though.
David...

[Mike Dobony]

Post by David Duffy

Post by Tim S Kemp

Post by Mike Dobony
That is my experience. If you think reality is horse shit, oh well.

You

Post by David Duffy

Post by Tim S Kemp

Post by Mike Dobony
are entitled to your opinion.

If powered speakers from a reputable supplier are noisy (hiss/hum) then
either (a) your gain structure is really messed up or (b) they're faulty.
Even Eons and SRM450s are quiet. Remember you only need the volume control
at 1/4 to 1/2 to drive them full with the output from most mixers.

Exactly. Why do some people run the damn things at 3/4 and above
on the input gain and have the mixer barely sending any signal
to them? Talk about bad gain structure. All too often too! :-)
I have heard powered boxes that were noisy (mainly hiss) even at
the lowest gain setting. It was some time ago and don't recall
what brand they were though.
David...

Or visa versa, the gains so high that you use only about 10% of the channel
faders and/or main faders. Gee, I wonder why it keeps clipping or sounding
like a buzz saw?

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

Remove .spamnot to respond by email

[Mike Dobony]

Post by Tim S Kemp

Post by David Duffy

Post by Tim S Kemp

Post by Mike Dobony
That is my experience. If you think reality is horse shit, oh well.

You

Post by David Duffy

Post by Tim S Kemp

Post by Mike Dobony
are entitled to your opinion.

If powered speakers from a reputable supplier are noisy (hiss/hum) then
either (a) your gain structure is really messed up or (b) they're

faulty.

Post by David Duffy

Post by Tim S Kemp
Even Eons and SRM450s are quiet. Remember you only need the volume

control

Post by David Duffy

Post by Tim S Kemp
at 1/4 to 1/2 to drive them full with the output from most mixers.

Exactly. Why do some people run the damn things at 3/4 and above
on the input gain and have the mixer barely sending any signal
to them? Talk about bad gain structure. All too often too! :-)
I have heard powered boxes that were noisy (mainly hiss) even at
the lowest gain setting. It was some time ago and don't recall
what brand they were though.
David...

Or visa versa, the gains so high that you use only about 10% of the channel
faders and/or main faders. Gee, I wonder why it keeps clipping or sounding
like a buzz saw?

That's me with only an hour of sleep. Just realized I said the saem thing.
Sleeping in tomorrow! Our youth leader has it both ways. The CD channel
gain is so high there is clipping and can only run the channel to
about -30db. Then he has the mic so low that he has to max the channel
fader and still gets a lousy signal. Proper gain structure is a must!
Neither too hig nor too low. Oh well, that is his problem. Tried to teach
him, but some people just will not listen. He's responsible for his gear
and I am responsible for the main sanctuary gear. Wish I knew what was
going on tonight, though. It was ringing like crazy! Wishing we had some
pro quality wireless mics! These toys are so inconsistant! They sound fair
in the morning and garbage at night. They never sound good.

I don't mind running up to 3/4 on a system of separates if I have to, but
never on a powered mixer or powered speaker. Half is even too much on
occasion. The better the design, the better the quality components, the
better the assembly workmanship the more you can push it. I don't get the
pleasure of working with many of those. If they have that much money to
spend they almost always get the separate amp and don't mess with powered
mixers or powered speakers.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

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Post by Tim S Kemp
--
Mike D.
www.stopassaultnow.org
Remove .spamnot to respond by email

[Mike Marlow]

Post by Mike Dobony
I don't mind running up to 3/4 on a system of separates if I have to,
but never on a powered mixer or powered speaker. Half is even too
much on occasion.

Either you've had one bad experience that has tainted your entire outlook
Mike, or you are making some over-reaching generalizations. Like others who
have indicated likewise in this thread, I never have the problems you make
reference to, no do I ever have to keep my powered speakers below 1/2. I
have run mine at near full on very many occassions without the noise
problems you speak of and I've certainly never been constrained to less than
1/2 - if I did, I wouldn't own them.

The better the design, the better the quality

Post by Mike Dobony
components, the better the assembly workmanship the more you can push
it. I don't get the pleasure of working with many of those. If they
have that much money to spend they almost always get the separate amp
and don't mess with powered mixers or powered speakers.

That would sort of depend on the need and the application now, wouldn't it?
--

-Mike-
***@REMOVEsprintmail.com

[Phildo]

Post by Mike Dobony
I don't mind running up to 3/4 on a system of separates if I have to, but
never on a powered mixer or powered speaker. Half is even too much on
occasion. The better the design, the better the quality components, the
better the assembly workmanship the more you can push it. I don't get the
pleasure of working with many of those. If they have that much money to
spend they almost always get the separate amp and don't mess with powered
mixers or powered speakers.

Yet again Dobby tries to defend his bullshit while all the time making
himself look dumber and dumber to the group.

When are you ever going to be man enough to admit you are wrong over
anything !?!?!?

Just don't have the balls I suppose.........

Phildo

[Noiseboy]

Post by Mike Dobony
Or visa versa, the gains so high that you use only about 10% of the channel
faders and/or main faders. Gee, I wonder why it keeps clipping or sounding
like a buzz saw?

Let's use the Mackie SRM-450 as an example of a typical powered
loudspeaker. With the input gain control (set for line level) at the
center detent, +4dBu drives the amplifier to its rated output.

Compare and contrast to a QSC CX-502 amplifier. A decent, run of the
mill amplifier. It has an input sensitivity of 1.23 volts for full
output.

Amazingly enough, these two seemingly disparate devices have the exact
same input sensitivity!

There is no difference between driving these amplifiers, even though one
is actually located in the speaker enclosure, as opposed to the
amplifier rack!


Keep in mind that you can actually attenuate the input to the speaker,
by rotating the gain control in a counter clockwise fasion. Believe it
or not, the QSC amplifier also has a control that provides
ATTENUATION!!!!!

So, what have we learned?

How about: an amplifier is an amplifier, no matter where it lives.

Attenuators are your friends. They prevent clipping, and can reduce
noise.

[David Duffy]

Post by Noiseboy
Let's use the Mackie SRM-450 as an example of a typical powered
loudspeaker. With the input gain control (set for line level) at the
center detent, +4dBu drives the amplifier to its rated output.
Compare and contrast to a QSC CX-502 amplifier. A decent, run of the
mill amplifier. It has an input sensitivity of 1.23 volts for full
output.
Amazingly enough, these two seemingly disparate devices have the exact
same input sensitivity!

I think where people get caught is that a straight power
amplifier is normally only meant for "line level" operation.
Some (but not all) powered speakers on the other hand are
provided with adjustable gain (mic - line), not attenuation
as such. They are marketed for the people who want to just
plug in a mic directly and go. (and link to the next unit)
David...

[Noiseboy]

Post by David Duffy

Post by Noiseboy
Let's use the Mackie SRM-450 as an example of a typical powered
loudspeaker. With the input gain control (set for line level) at the
center detent, +4dBu drives the amplifier to its rated output.
Compare and contrast to a QSC CX-502 amplifier. A decent, run of the
mill amplifier. It has an input sensitivity of 1.23 volts for full
output.
Amazingly enough, these two seemingly disparate devices have the exact
same input sensitivity!

I think where people get caught is that a straight power
amplifier is normally only meant for "line level" operation.
Some (but not all) powered speakers on the other hand are
provided with adjustable gain (mic - line), not attenuation
as such. They are marketed for the people who want to just
plug in a mic directly and go. (and link to the next unit)

Arguably, the Mackie SRM 450 and the JBL Eon are two of the most common
powered systems around. Both speakers provide mic and line level
capability. I don't doubt that they are often misused, due to ignorance.

[Phildo]

Post by Noiseboy
So, what have we learned?
How about: an amplifier is an amplifier, no matter where it lives.
Attenuators are your friends. They prevent clipping, and can reduce
noise.

You should add "Dobby is a pillock" to that list.

Phildo

[Noiseboy]

Post by Phildo

Post by Noiseboy
So, what have we learned?
How about: an amplifier is an amplifier, no matter where it lives.
Attenuators are your friends. They prevent clipping, and can reduce
noise.

You should add "Dobby is a pillock" to that list.

Sorry, whining about Dobby with every other post is your job, not mine.

[Phildo]

Post by Noiseboy

Post by Phildo

Post by Noiseboy
So, what have we learned?
How about: an amplifier is an amplifier, no matter where it lives.
Attenuators are your friends. They prevent clipping, and can reduce
noise.

You should add "Dobby is a pillock" to that list.

Sorry, whining about Dobby with every other post is your job, not mine.

Some community spirit you have. Oh well, I shall just carry on warning the
newbies until Dobby gets the message and buggers off back to alt.bigots
where he belongs.

Phildo

[Phildo]

Post by David Duffy
Sounds like complete horse shit to me.

Mike always sounds like that.

You fancy a laugh, go to google groups and just type in "dobony" as a
search. Will show you what a slimeball he really is.

Phildo

[David Duffy]

Post by Phildo

Post by David Duffy
Sounds like complete horse shit to me.

Mike always sounds like that.
You fancy a laugh, go to google groups and just type in "dobony" as a
search. Will show you what a slimeball he really is.

I've been on this list long enough to see his dribble. :-)
(way to often) I subscribe to the theory that if you don't know
something, don't lie and crap on about it. Ask! Nobody knows
everything about every subject. No harm in asking about it.
David...

[Phildo]

Post by David Duffy

Post by Phildo

Post by David Duffy
Sounds like complete horse shit to me.

Mike always sounds like that.
You fancy a laugh, go to google groups and just type in "dobony" as a
search. Will show you what a slimeball he really is.

I've been on this list long enough to see his dribble. :-)

Good. Still worth warning when he spouts his crap though as some people
might be dumb or naive enough to actually listen to him.

Post by David Duffy
(way to often) I subscribe to the theory that if you don't know
something, don't lie and crap on about it.

Something Dobby would do very well to learn. Trouble is his ego won't ever
let him see himself as anything less than perfect, an image he tries to make
everyone else believe and only makes a fool of himself in the process.

Post by David Duffy
Ask! Nobody knows
everything about every subject. No harm in asking about it.

No harm in asking at all. What the real problem where is though is Dobby
thinking he knows it all, giving bullshit advice that people might actually
take seriously. Whether they get a crap sound, waste some money or even kill
themselves based on his advice is immaterial. It is up to the members of the
group to pull him up and expose him for what he is when he tries to bluff
his way and gives out wrong information or advice. If I make a mistake I
expect people to pull me up on it and explain why and this way we can all
learn. Dobby just argues away, digging himself deeper and deeper and makes a
complete pratt of himself.

Phildo

[Phildo]

Post by Mike Dobony
That is why I have never
recommend powered speakers, real world experience. That is also why when I
hear a hum the first thing I look for is powered speakers or powered mixer.

You have jack shit real world experience as you have shown by your dumbass
answers on here many times. Powered speakers are no more liable to hum then
a separate mixer, amp and speakers. You are talking out of your arse as
usual.

Phildo

[timbo]

Post by Mike Dobony

Post by timbo
Mackie SRM450 (12" 2-way)
Yamaha MS400 (15" 2-way)
Behringer B300 (15" 2-way)
JBL EON15 G2 (15" 2-way)
anyone out there had much experience with these speakers? I'm trying to

put

Post by timbo
together a small pa system for a local university to be used in their cafe
for lunchtime gigs etc.
any help greatly appreciated,

Listen to each one. Buy the floor models. You never know what you will get
from a box. Buying powered speaker or powered mixers from a factory box or
mail order/internet are like playing the lottery. Players lose more money.
The floor units may sound great, but who knows about the boxed unit or the
unheard unit. When I hear a buzz, hiss, white noise, etc., the first thing
I look for is a powered mixer or speaker. Many times this is the cause.

yeah, i'd love to listen to 'em all & then go for the best sounding one, but
unfortunately i live in a rural area, about 3 hours drive away from
Melbourne - although i think i might go for a drive & check out a few units
over a couple of days - no doubt i'll only be able to preview a few of the
units mentioned in this thread though...

cheers,

timbo.

[Mike Dobony]

Post by timbo

Post by Mike Dobony

Post by timbo
Mackie SRM450 (12" 2-way)
Yamaha MS400 (15" 2-way)
Behringer B300 (15" 2-way)
JBL EON15 G2 (15" 2-way)
anyone out there had much experience with these speakers? I'm trying to

put

Post by timbo
together a small pa system for a local university to be used in their cafe
for lunchtime gigs etc.
any help greatly appreciated,

Listen to each one. Buy the floor models. You never know what you will get
from a box. Buying powered speaker or powered mixers from a factory box or
mail order/internet are like playing the lottery. Players lose more money.
The floor units may sound great, but who knows about the boxed unit or the
unheard unit. When I hear a buzz, hiss, white noise, etc., the first thing
I look for is a powered mixer or speaker. Many times this is the cause.

yeah, i'd love to listen to 'em all & then go for the best sounding one, but
unfortunately i live in a rural area, about 3 hours drive away from
Melbourne - although i think i might go for a drive & check out a few units
over a couple of days - no doubt i'll only be able to preview a few of the
units mentioned in this thread though...

In that case, I would try to listen to a Yamaha and a Mackie first. Then
again, personal taste may push you to one of the others. Just listen to
what is available and choose from those.

--
Mike D.

www.stopassaultnow.org

Remove .spamnot to respond by email

Post by timbo
cheers,
timbo.

[DaveD]

timbo wrote:
8><

Post by timbo
yeah, i'd love to listen to 'em all & then go for the best sounding one, but
unfortunately i live in a rural area, about 3 hours drive away from
Melbourne - although i think i might go for a drive & check out a few units
over a couple of days - no doubt i'll only be able to preview a few of the
units mentioned in this thread though...
cheers,
timbo.

Timbo,
Get in touch with the Melbourne office of Audio Telex and find out if
anyone near you has a Turbosound TXD set-up, or if they would audition
them (in Melbourne) for you. I suspect that a TXD121 + TXD118 or 215
combination might have you wondering about visiting the bank manager (
or sweet talking the wife).
As Tim said, the TXD121 are a little bass light, but the addition of a
sub makes them very nice IMO. If you get the chance, have a listen to
the TQ440SP as an out of budget self powered box! AT also have a really
cheap plastic box that is not too shoddy (the X1) but not self powered
(yet).
My 2p
DaveD

[Tim S Kemp]

Post by DaveD
Timbo,
Get in touch with the Melbourne office of Audio Telex and find out if
anyone near you has a Turbosound TXD set-up, or if they would audition
them (in Melbourne) for you. I suspect that a TXD121 + TXD118 or 215
combination might have you wondering about visiting the bank manager (
or sweet talking the wife).
As Tim said, the TXD121 are a little bass light, but the addition of a
sub makes them very nice IMO. If you get the chance, have a listen to
the TQ440SP as an out of budget self powered box! AT also have a really
cheap plastic box that is not too shoddy (the X1) but not self powered

TQ440SP is an exercise in what can be done, it's up there with the meyers as
being the best of the best in self powered boxes. I've just put some TQ310s
and TXD215 subs into a church (my church) replacing the old 802s that have
been slung there for ages. They are stunning.

[Paul Matthews]

On the powered speakers front, does anyone have any knowledge of the Powercubes
http://www.power-cube.com/ designed by Malcolm Hill?

They look pretty decent - more powerful & louder than my Mackie rig, and more
compact.

[Stu P]

Post by timbo

Post by Mike Dobony

Post by timbo
Mackie SRM450 (12" 2-way)
Yamaha MS400 (15" 2-way)
Behringer B300 (15" 2-way)
JBL EON15 G2 (15" 2-way)
anyone out there had much experience with these speakers? I'm trying to

put

Post by timbo
together a small pa system for a local university to be used in their cafe
for lunchtime gigs etc.
any help greatly appreciated,

Listen to each one. Buy the floor models. You never know what you will get
from a box. Buying powered speaker or powered mixers from a factory box or
mail order/internet are like playing the lottery. Players lose more money.
The floor units may sound great, but who knows about the boxed unit or the
unheard unit. When I hear a buzz, hiss, white noise, etc., the first thing
I look for is a powered mixer or speaker. Many times this is the cause.

yeah, i'd love to listen to 'em all & then go for the best sounding one, but
unfortunately i live in a rural area, about 3 hours drive away from
Melbourne - although i think i might go for a drive & check out a few units
over a couple of days - no doubt i'll only be able to preview a few of the
units mentioned in this thread though...
cheers,
timbo.

Give "Factory Sound" a call. They're in South Melbourne (York St. I think)
and have always been good to me price-wise. They have everything
audio-wise, and there's a great fish n chip shop around the corner in
Clarendon St...

Cheers,

Stu.

[timbo]

Post by Mike Dobony

Post by timbo

Post by Mike Dobony

Post by timbo
Mackie SRM450 (12" 2-way)
Yamaha MS400 (15" 2-way)
Behringer B300 (15" 2-way)
JBL EON15 G2 (15" 2-way)
anyone out there had much experience with these speakers? I'm trying to

put

Post by timbo
together a small pa system for a local university to be used in their

cafe

Post by timbo

Post by Mike Dobony

Post by timbo
for lunchtime gigs etc.
any help greatly appreciated,

Listen to each one. Buy the floor models. You never know what you will

get

Post by timbo

Post by Mike Dobony
from a box. Buying powered speaker or powered mixers from a factory box

or

Post by timbo

Post by Mike Dobony
mail order/internet are like playing the lottery. Players lose more

money.

Post by timbo

Post by Mike Dobony
The floor units may sound great, but who knows about the boxed unit or

the

Post by timbo

Post by Mike Dobony
unheard unit. When I hear a buzz, hiss, white noise, etc., the first

thing

Post by timbo

Post by Mike Dobony
I look for is a powered mixer or speaker. Many times this is the cause.

yeah, i'd love to listen to 'em all & then go for the best sounding one,

but

Post by timbo
unfortunately i live in a rural area, about 3 hours drive away from
Melbourne - although i think i might go for a drive & check out a few

units

Post by timbo
over a couple of days - no doubt i'll only be able to preview a few of the
units mentioned in this thread though...
cheers,
timbo.

Give "Factory Sound" a call. They're in South Melbourne (York St. I think)
and have always been good to me price-wise. They have everything
audio-wise, and there's a great fish n chip shop around the corner in
Clarendon St...

yeah, they're on my list of calls to be made. so far the db opera 412's are
looking good - i'm going to tee up a demo here in town, one of the local
music shops will bring a setup down for me. good pricing too.

mmm fish n chips sounds good for lunch today..

cheers,

timbo.

[David Duffy]

Post by timbo
yeah, they're on my list of calls to be made. so far the db opera 412's are
looking good - i'm going to tee up a demo here in town, one of the local
music shops will bring a setup down for me. good pricing too.

I was quite surprised at how quiet the db Opera powered
speakers I heard were. (at line level sensitivity anyway)
Not sure of the model number of them but they were a 12"
and horn type. On the downside, they were way too low
powered to useful in a larger room although they did the
job well enough for smaller audiences. Maybe that's part
of the explanation to the low noise. (lower output power)
David...

[Phildo]

Post by timbo

Post by Mike Dobony
Listen to each one. Buy the floor models. You never know what you will get
from a box. Buying powered speaker or powered mixers from a factory box or
mail order/internet are like playing the lottery. Players lose more money.
The floor units may sound great, but who knows about the boxed unit or the
unheard unit. When I hear a buzz, hiss, white noise, etc., the first thing
I look for is a powered mixer or speaker. Many times this is the cause.

yeah, i'd love to listen to 'em all & then go for the best sounding one, but
unfortunately i live in a rural area, about 3 hours drive away from
Melbourne - although i think i might go for a drive & check out a few units
over a couple of days - no doubt i'll only be able to preview a few of the
units mentioned in this thread though...

Please ignore Mike Dobony. He knows nothing about pro audio and yet he tries
to come across as some sort of authority. The guy is a complete dumbass so
follow his advice at your peril.

Phildo

[~ rob ~]

Post by timbo
Mackie SRM450 (12" 2-way)
Yamaha MS400 (15" 2-way)
Behringer B300 (15" 2-way)
JBL EON15 G2 (15" 2-way)
anyone out there had much experience with these speakers? I'm trying to put
together a small pa system for a local university to be used in their cafe
for lunchtime gigs etc.
any help greatly appreciated,
cheers,
timbo.

===========
Mackie has always interested me, the price on the 450s looks pretty
good...worth a listen.

-bg-

www.thelittlecanadaheadphoneband.ca

[Phildo]

Post by ~ rob ~
Mackie has always interested me, the price on the 450s looks pretty
good...worth a listen.

Behringer ones sound just as good and are a hell of a lot cheaper.

Phildo