micing guitar cab

[Dave "Mod Bod" Modisette]

My newsgroup reader is only picking up about a week's posts or I would
search the group for this quick question.

If micing a tube combo in a hurry and you have to place a mic and hope
for the best would you go with a 57 straight into the center of the cone
to give you more clarity so that you can roll it off if you get too much
treble or maybe halfway between the cone and the edge?

[Les Cargill]

Post by Dave "Mod Bod" Modisette
My newsgroup reader is only picking up about a week's posts or I would
search the group for this quick question.
If micing a tube combo in a hurry and you have to place a mic and hope
for the best would you go with a 57 straight into the center of the cone
to give you more clarity so that you can roll it off if you get too much
treble or maybe halfway between the cone and the edge?

Everybody does this differently. I start with straight in and work
towards the edge from there. Usually straight in is the right choice.

--
Les Cargill

[Rupert]

Post by Dave "Mod Bod" Modisette
My newsgroup reader is only picking up about a week's posts or I would
search the group for this quick question.
If micing a tube combo in a hurry and you have to place a mic and hope
for the best would you go with a 57 straight into the center of the cone
to give you more clarity so that you can roll it off if you get too much
treble or maybe halfway between the cone and the edge?
Dave "Mod Bod" Modisette

Unless the tone is exceptionally dull, I usually mic perpendicular to the cabinet with a 57 just inside of of the cone's surround by about 1" and against the grill. When using an E906 or E609, I'll usually go about 1/2 way between center and the edge since those mics tend to have less upper end bite.

[Phil Allison]

If micing a tube combo in a hurry and you have to place a mic and hope for
the best would you go with a 57 straight into the center of the cone to
give you more clarity so that you can roll it off if you get too much
treble or maybe halfway between the cone and the edge?

** Is this for sound re-enforcement or recording ?

If you want to capture the sound of the combo amp, then back the mic away to
at least 1 metre distance.

Close micing the cone of one speaker is done mostly to prevent the mic from
being tripped over when on stage - the sound is just awful.


... Phil

[Flint]

Post by Phil Allison

If micing a tube combo in a hurry and you have to place a mic and hope for
the best would you go with a 57 straight into the center of the cone to
give you more clarity so that you can roll it off if you get too much
treble or maybe halfway between the cone and the edge?

** Is this for sound re-enforcement or recording ?
If you want to capture the sound of the combo amp, then back the mic away to
at least 1 metre distance.
Close micing the cone of one speaker is done mostly to prevent the mic from
being tripped over when on stage - the sound is just awful.

You just provided an argument against your own 1 metre distance
suggestion.

Close micing is also done for some degree of isolation from adjacent
instruments/cabinet sound sources.

Live sound: 101

[Phil Allison]

"Flint"

Post by Flint

Post by Phil Allison
** Is this for sound re-enforcement or recording ?
If you want to capture the sound of the combo amp, then back the mic away to
at least 1 metre distance.
Close micing the cone of one speaker is done mostly to prevent the mic from
being tripped over when on stage - the sound is just awful.

You just provided an argument against your own 1 metre distance
suggestion.

** ROTFL - wot an illiterate fuckwit.

Post by Flint
Close micing is also done for some degree of isolation from adjacent
instruments/cabinet sound sources.

** Try learning to read.

[bob urz]

Post by Phil Allison

If micing a tube combo in a hurry and you have to place a mic and hope for
the best would you go with a 57 straight into the center of the cone to
give you more clarity so that you can roll it off if you get too much
treble or maybe halfway between the cone and the edge?

** Is this for sound re-enforcement or recording ?
If you want to capture the sound of the combo amp, then back the mic away to
at least 1 metre distance.
Close micing the cone of one speaker is done mostly to prevent the mic from
being tripped over when on stage - the sound is just awful.

You just provided an argument against your own 1 metre distance suggestion.
Close micing is also done for some degree of isolation from adjacent
instruments/cabinet sound sources.
Live sound: 101

Isolation is the name of the game. Every large arena show i work, the
mike is right up into the cabinet. sometimes, the mike bracket with the
microphone travels on a cart with the amp that way.

Some people go the ultra isolation route. The guitar amps will be in
a closed ISO road box which may not even be on the stage.
Lots of the guitar boxes you see on stage these days on big shows
are either dummy's, or not used. The days of walls of live Marshall
stacks is over. Hopefully, most of us in the industry have gotten
smarter on the whole isolation deal.

Bob

[Phil Allison]

"bob urz"

Post by bob urz
Isolation is the name of the game.

** Insane crap.

Like EVERYTHING the Urz criminal fuckhead ever says.

[bob urz]

Post by Phil Allison
"bob urz"

Post by bob urz
Isolation is the name of the game.

** Insane crap.
Like EVERYTHING the Urz criminal fuckhead ever says.

You walk with the dinosaurs, you end up with them Phil.

Back in the good ole days when EAW ruled the concert touring world,
loud was in and you just sprayed the sound in every direction with
no worry's of sonic qualities, comb filtering, and coverage.
You also had the baddest sets of on stage wedges everywhere, and
HUGE side fills either flown or ground stacked. Life was good.
People bought tickets. The sound, well, you heard it.
Those wedges and sidefills at ear splitting levels (due to the talent
losing what hearing they had left), just made whatever was coming
though all the mikes that much more muddy.

Then people stated getting smarter. Line arrays come into common use in
arena and shed shows giving the ability to have more coherent sound
and coverage than was possible Vs stacking a bunch of 650s in a pile.

Piles of Marshall stacks was replaced with fewer active amps and letting
the gain be had from the PA rather than the guitar amps. Mountains of
wedges and side fills were replaced by in the ear monitors. The little
light went off in a lot of people in the production and music community.
Yes, it could be BETTER and loud.

Digital consoles allowed more consistency and more flexibility.
For most, the world shifted. Some still choose to walk with the
dinosaurs, and it shows when you listen to there shows.

The smartest use of these theory's i saw a number of years back
at a symphony pops show of the music of led Zeppelin. I thought
for sure, yea, a bunch of rockers with there amps up high.
Why bother to have the symphony show up? Boy was i wrong.
there were NO guitar amps on stage. All were off stage in
isolation. No floor wedges. All was in the ears. The only acoustic
signature on stage were the drums, and they were behind drum shields.
Finally, someone got it all in one package. The results were
fantastic.

Anyone can made noise. Doing it live at higher DB levels in big
arenas is a little more of a challenge. My standard is if you can
understand the words (without already knowing them) in a big
venue with the guitars wailing, you got your ticket to the
next century.

Perhaps Phil would like to share how many large rock shows
he personally helped set in in venues over the last 5 years



bob

[Steve M]

"bob urz" <***@inetnebr.com> wrote > Perhaps Phil would like to share how
many large rock shows

Post by bob urz
he personally helped set in in venues over the last 5 years

I already know the answer.

I'd bet he hasn't set up or mixed a single show in the last ten years, or
more.
--
Steve McQ

[k***@gmail.com]

Post by Phil Allison

If micing a tube combo in a hurry and you have to place a mic and hope for
the best would you go with a 57 straight into the center of the cone to
give you more clarity so that you can roll it off if you get too much
treble or maybe halfway between the cone and the edge?

** Is this for sound re-enforcement or recording ?
If you want to capture the sound of the combo amp, then back the mic away to
at least 1 metre distance.
Close micing the cone of one speaker is done mostly to prevent the mic from
being tripped over when on stage - the sound is just awful.
... Phil

Wrong on both accounts. If close micing was so bad on guitar amps, you wouldn't find it done all the time in recording studios. While it's true that often 2-3 mics are used on a given guitar amp in the studio, the close mic sound is often the majority of the tone on modern rock records. If you think that sounds awful, that's you opinion only and has no bearing on reality.

As for the live stage, close micing is mainly for isolation from stage wash and is very effective at that task. The quality of the sound is also fine. Some mics work better than others. The Sennheiser E series and Audix i5 are both an improvement over the SM57, but a 57 still works fine.

Hugs & kisses,
- K

[Phil Allison]

Post by Phil Allison
** Is this for sound re-enforcement or recording ?
If you want to capture the sound of the combo amp, then back the mic away to
at least 1 metre distance.
Close micing the cone of one speaker is done mostly to prevent the mic from
being tripped over when on stage - the sound is just awful.
Wrong on both accounts.

** Fraid it is all correct.

The sound of a combo, particularly a " tube combo" with open back, is only
heard at some distance.

Post by Phil Allison
If close micing was so bad on guitar amps, you wouldn't find it done all
the time in recording studios.

** It is not done all the time with tube combos.


As for the live stage, close micing is mainly for isolation from stage wash
...

** A mic at one metre would do just as well.

Post by Phil Allison
The quality of the sound is also fine.

** If you love the sound of cardboard.

Post by Phil Allison
Some mics work better than others.

** Yep - most will hum from being close to the field from the AC
transformer and all will suffer from overload because of the huge SPL at
such close range to the cone.


.... Phil

[Flint]

Post by Phil Allison

Post by Phil Allison
** Is this for sound re-enforcement or recording ?
If you want to capture the sound of the combo amp, then back the mic away to
at least 1 metre distance.
Close micing the cone of one speaker is done mostly to prevent the mic from
being tripped over when on stage - the sound is just awful.
Wrong on both accounts.

** Fraid it is all correct.
The sound of a combo, particularly a " tube combo" with open back, is only
heard at some distance.

Post by Phil Allison
If close micing was so bad on guitar amps, you wouldn't find it done all
the time in recording studios.

** It is not done all the time with tube combos.
As for the live stage, close micing is mainly for isolation from stage wash
...

But you initially said it was primarily to keep from tripping over them.

Post by Phil Allison
** A mic at one metre would do just as well.

But just not on a small stage, right?

Post by Phil Allison

Post by Phil Allison
The quality of the sound is also fine.

** If you love the sound of cardboard.

While I would not claim it is optimal for capture of any cabinet tonal
nuances, it is hardly 'bad' sounding... unless you use crap mics on
crap amp rigs by crap guitarists on crap gigs.

[Phil Allison]

"Flint"

Post by Flint

Post by k***@gmail.com
As for the live stage, close micing is mainly for isolation from stage wash
...

But you initially said it was primarily to keep from tripping over them.

** FFS - those are YOUR words, not mine.

Idiot.

[Flint]

Post by Phil Allison
"Flint"

Post by Flint

Post by k***@gmail.com
As for the live stage, close micing is mainly for isolation from stage wash
...

But you initially said it was primarily to keep from tripping over them.

** FFS - those are YOUR words, not mine.
Idiot.

You're a *liar*:
From: "Phil Allison" <***@tpg.com.au>
Newsgroups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound
Subject: Re: micing guitar cab
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 16:15:19 +1000
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Post by Phil Allison
If micing a tube combo in a hurry and you have to place a mic and hope for
the best would you go with a 57 straight into the center of the cone to
give you more clarity so that you can roll it off if you get too much
treble or maybe halfway between the cone and the edge?

** Is this for sound re-enforcement or recording ?

If you want to capture the sound of the combo amp, then back the mic
away to
at least 1 metre distance.

Close micing the cone of one speaker is done mostly to prevent the mic
from
being tripped over when on stage - the sound is just awful.


... Phil
Go attempt self-procreation, moron...

[Phil Allison]

"Flint= Fuckwit "

Post by Phil Allison

Post by Flint

Post by k***@gmail.com
As for the live stage, close micing is mainly for isolation from stage wash
...

But you initially said it was primarily to keep from tripping over them.

** FFS - those are YOUR words, not mine.
Idiot.

** The words beginning with " As for the live ... "

Are ** YOURS ** - not mine.

YOU STUPID, AUTISTIC CUNTHEAD !!

[Flint]

"Flint= Fuckwit"

Post by Phil Allison

Post by Flint

Post by k***@gmail.com
As for the live stage, close micing is mainly for isolation from stage wash
...

But you initially said it was primarily to keep from tripping over them.

** FFS - those are YOUR words, not mine.
Idiot.

**
Are ** YOURS ** - not mine.
YOU STUPID, AUTISTIC CUNTHEAD !!

And you are a cuntextual phuckup. They aren't my words you fucking
simpleton. They're >>>>>>>>>>>>kroobergs<<<<<<<<<<<<< because you,
fucktard, stripped the quote nesting before the words beginning with "
As for the live ... " making it appear to be your own words in your
reply to him.

Go blow yourself Phallus Phil...

[Phil Allison]

"Flint = 100% TOTAL Fuckwit"



** See these " ** " at the beginning of sentences in all my posts ???

Guess why I use them ??

Then go fuck yourself.



... Phil

[Flint]

Post by Phil Allison
"Flint = 100% TOTAL Fuckwit"
** See these " ** " at the beginning of sentences in all my posts ???
Guess why I use them ??
Then go fuck yourself.
... Phil

I don't give a flying FUCK what your preferred quote nesting character
is. The point is you LEFT THEM OUT (for what ever reason) and DIDN'T
USE THEM, thus making it appear they were YOUR words, and not from
someone else. I never claimed you did this intentionally, but make no
mistake, you DID EXACTLY that. Then you attributed the sentence to
me, gooberspaz.

Later, PED-o-Phil.

[Phil Allison]

"Flint = 100% TOTAL Fuckwit"

Post by Phil Allison
** See these " ** " at the beginning of sentences in all my posts ???
Guess why I use them ??
Then go fuck yourself.

I don't give a flying FUCK what your preferred quote nesting character is.
The point is you LEFT THEM OUT

** I fucking well did NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

** It is not done all the time with tube combos.

As for the live stage, close micing is mainly for isolation from stage wash
...

** A mic at one metre would do just as well. "

------------------------------------------------------------------------

YOU are an illiterate FUCKING IDIOT !!!!!!!!!!

Go fuck your donkey.


... Phil

[gregz]

Post by Phil Allison
"Flint = 100% TOTAL Fuckwit"

Post by Phil Allison
** See these " ** " at the beginning of sentences in all my posts ???
Guess why I use them ??
Then go fuck yourself.

I don't give a flying FUCK what your preferred quote nesting character is.
The point is you LEFT THEM OUT

** I fucking well did NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
** It is not done all the time with tube combos.
As for the live stage, close micing is mainly for isolation from stage wash
...
** A mic at one metre would do just as well. "

Aside from isolation, the only way your going to get any kind of true
pickup from a speaker, is some distance away.

Why is it, it does not sound live if I can't hear some direct acoustic
sound from drums.

Greg

[Peter Larsen]

Post by Phil Allison

Post by k***@gmail.com
Wrong on both accounts.

** Fraid it is all correct.

Yerp, you're right on all counts. For recording however I'll supplement with
suggesting the use of a stereophonic mic setup at 6 to 10 feet and sensible
placement of an open back cabinet that allows wall reflection of the rear
wave.

Post by Phil Allison
.... Phil

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Dave "Mod Bod" Modisette]

Post by Phil Allison

If micing a tube combo in a hurry and you have to place a mic and hope for
the best would you go with a 57 straight into the center of the cone to
give you more clarity so that you can roll it off if you get too much
treble or maybe halfway between the cone and the edge?

** Is this for sound re-enforcement or recording ?
If you want to capture the sound of the combo amp, then back the mic away to
at least 1 metre distance.
Close micing the cone of one speaker is done mostly to prevent the mic from
being tripped over when on stage - the sound is just awful.
... Phil

This is live sound.

[Steve M]

Post by Phil Allison
Close micing the cone of one speaker is done mostly to prevent the mic
from being tripped over when on stage

To be succinct about it....

Bullshit.

--
Steve McQ

[Dave "Mod Bod" Modisette]

Post by Dave "Mod Bod" Modisette
My newsgroup reader is only picking up about a week's posts or I would
search the group for this quick question.
If micing a tube combo in a hurry and you have to place a mic and hope
for the best would you go with a 57 straight into the center of the cone
to give you more clarity so that you can roll it off if you get too much
treble or maybe halfway between the cone and the edge?

Just as a reminder or clarification: this is a situation where you might
not have a chance to redo the positioning. It's a best guess, set it
and pray it doesn't suck, best chance for success situation.

When I am studio recording a small cabinet, I am hardly ever satisfied
with a perpendicular mic on the cone. I'm usually either 1-2 inches off
the cone edge or better. If I'm on the cone, I've got the 57 at a 45
degree angle.

But I was curious that having more treble available would give you more
"cut" to get you through the rest of the mix (especially if the
guitarist is overly generous with his pedal board compressor.)

I just wanted to check my thinking in this regard.

[DanielleOM]

Post by Dave "Mod Bod" Modisette
My newsgroup reader is only picking up about a week's posts or I would
search the group for this quick question.
If micing a tube combo in a hurry and you have to place a mic and hope
for the best would you go with a 57 straight into the center of the
cone to give you more clarity so that you can roll it off if you get
too much treble or maybe halfway between the cone and the edge?

I think you are supposed to tie the very expensive XLR cable tightly
around the guitar cab handle and then let the microphone hang in front
of the cabinet pointed at the floor. That's the way I see most people
doing it and people must be used to hearing guitar cabs mic'ed in that
manner.

:-)


Danielle

[Steve M]

Post by DanielleOM
I think you are supposed to tie the very expensive XLR cable tightly
around the guitar cab handle and then let the microphone hang in front of
the cabinet pointed at the floor. That's the way I see most people doing
it and people must be used to hearing guitar cabs mic'ed in that manner.

Well, when you don't have another mic stand, z-bar, mic-eze, cab-grabber, or
other device to mount
a mic on, that will do in a pinch.


You must attend a lot of low budget shows.

--
Steve McQ

[Rupert]

Post by Steve M

Post by DanielleOM
I think you are supposed to tie the very expensive XLR cable tightly
around the guitar cab handle and then let the microphone hang in front of
the cabinet pointed at the floor. That's the way I see most people doing
it and people must be used to hearing guitar cabs mic'ed in that manner.

Well, when you don't have another mic stand, z-bar, mic-eze, cab-grabber, or
other device to mount
a mic on, that will do in a pinch.
You must attend a lot of low budget shows.
Steve McQ

The only time I would fathom draping a mic over a cabinet would be with an E series Sennheiser since those are side address mics and are made for it. But I still don't do it. Anyone who does it with a 57 is out to lunch.