Is the Yamaha AW16G Good As a Mixer?

Post by tiglath
I was considering getting a Mackie 1402-VLZ PRO Compact Mixer or a
Behringer Eurorack UB1832FX-PRO to go with my new Bose PAS PA.
The Mackie seems more professional but the Behringer comes loaded with
stuff and it's perhaps better for those who do not have lots of gear.
Despite the fights I've seen from advocated for both brands,
reliability doesn't seem to be a problem unless you get a lemon.
That Larry Carlton uses a Mackie in his live rig tells me that it must
sound good. I don't know about the Behringer.
Maybe I need neither since I have a Yamaha AW16G multi-track recorder,
which is part mixer, but I wonder if it's better left as a recorder and
use a proper mixer for the PA.
Comments appreciated
Many thanks

contact Larry Pattis over at
rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
the bose PAS is not something sound engineer use,it is a muso owned kind of
thing
George

tiglath

2005-10-05 20:05:47 UTC

contact Larry Pattis over at
rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
the bose PAS is not something sound engineer use,it is a muso owned kind of
thing
George

Thank you for your reply, but the Bose PAS was only incidental to my
post. My question was rather whether the Yamaha AW16G is anywhere near
as a mixer as the Mackie and the Behringer I mentioned, and which of
the two mixers is best to get for home use.

Regards

hank alrich

2005-10-06 14:35:39 UTC

contact Larry Pattis over at
rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
the bose PAS is not something sound engineer use,it is a muso owned kind of
thing

If you're doing this at home just go ahead and use the Yamaha for a
while to see i8f it will do what you need to do with it. It wouldn't be
anybody's first choice for pro SR work, but you won't be the first to
use it for a PA mixer. It has what you'd need to do simple reinforcement
mixing. Learning how to use it for that will keep you busy in the
beginning, but that's how you find out if it's a solution for your
problem.

--
ha

George Gleason

2005-10-06 16:10:16 UTC

Post by tiglath
I was considering getting a Mackie 1402-VLZ PRO Compact Mixer or
a Behringer Eurorack UB1832FX-PRO to go with my new Bose PAS PA.
The Mackie seems more professional but the Behringer comes loaded
with stuff and it's perhaps better for those who do not have lots
of gear.
Despite the fights I've seen from advocated for both brands,
reliability doesn't seem to be a problem unless you get a lemon.
That Larry Carlton uses a Mackie in his live rig tells me that it
must sound good. I don't know about the Behringer.
Maybe I need neither since I have a Yamaha AW16G multi-track
recorder, which is part mixer, but I wonder if it's better left
as a recorder and use a proper mixer for the PA.

contact Larry Pattis over at
rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
the bose PAS is not something sound engineer use,it is a muso owned
kind of thing

Thank you for your reply, but the Bose PAS was only incidental to my
post. My question was rather whether the Yamaha AW16G is anywhere
near as a mixer as the Mackie and the Behringer I mentioned, and
which of the two mixers is best to get for home use.

The issue is the presets in the bose prevent lots of gear from
interacting with it in the "expected " way
the fact your using the bose makes it central to your question
George

tiglath

2005-10-06 16:53:09 UTC

Post by tiglath
Maybe I need neither since I have a Yamaha AW16G multi-track
recorder, which is part mixer, but I wonder if it's better left
as a recorder and use a proper mixer for the PA.

contact Larry Pattis over at
rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
the bose PAS is not something sound engineer use,it is a muso owned
kind of thing

Thank you for your reply, but the Bose PAS was only incidental to my
post. My question was rather whether the Yamaha AW16G is anywhere
near as a mixer as the Mackie and the Behringer I mentioned, and
which of the two mixers is best to get for home use.

The issue is the presets in the bose prevent lots of gear from
interacting with it in the "expected " way
the fact your using the bose makes it central to your question

Pardon my ignorance but the Bose PAS is at the end of the signal chain
and all it can do is color what it is given. Having tried it out I am
mighty pleased with the way my guitars sound out of the PODxt and into
the Bose and the quality of recorded music. Since I won't be using
their tiny subs but my 18" powered JBLs the end result is partly
conventional.

Again, the Bose's coloration can affect the end result but the mixing
capabilities of the Mackie or the Behringer versus my Yamaha AW16G
remain independent of it, and that was the meat of my post.

I've decided to get a Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro, but thanks anyway.

George Gleason

2005-10-06 17:06:45 UTC

Post by tiglath
Maybe I need neither since I have a Yamaha AW16G multi-track
recorder, which is part mixer, but I wonder if it's better left
as a recorder and use a proper mixer for the PA.

contact Larry Pattis over at
rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
the bose PAS is not something sound engineer use,it is a muso owned
kind of thing

Thank you for your reply, but the Bose PAS was only incidental to my
post. My question was rather whether the Yamaha AW16G is anywhere
near as a mixer as the Mackie and the Behringer I mentioned, and
which of the two mixers is best to get for home use.

the only significAnt diffrence between the 1402 and the 6 xlr

behringer is cost
they both sound essentiallly the same, the behringer may be a bit more
reliable as its power supply is external, the mackies is internal and
generates quite a lot of heat
but the behringer costs 1/3 what the mackie costs, due to better
manufactureing and economy of scale
either will work, you'll spend considerably less on the behringer

what I can't predict is what the bose will soundlike when fed from one of
these mixers

I have never seen a aw16 used as a performance mixer, I have no idea of
how it would work out in that application

george

Phildo

2005-10-11 20:37:24 UTC

Post by tiglath
I've decided to get a Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro, but thanks anyway.

Don't waste your money. The Behringer is a better mixer and half the price.

Phildo

hank alrich

2005-10-12 01:17:59 UTC

"tiglath" wrote...

Post by tiglath
I've decided to get a Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro, but thanks anyway.

Don't waste your money. The Behringer is a better mixer and half the price.

What Behringer mixer directly correlates to the Mackie 1402? Same number
of mic pres, etc.

--
ha

Phildo

2005-10-12 08:35:56 UTC

"tiglath" wrote...

Post by tiglath
I've decided to get a Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro, but thanks anyway.

Don't waste your money. The Behringer is a better mixer and half the price.

What Behringer mixer directly correlates to the Mackie 1402? Same number
of mic pres, etc.

Not sure. Look in the catalogue or at the website.

For the money you have to spend you could get something bigger in a
Behringer and leave yourself room to expand.

Phildo

Arny Krueger

2005-10-12 12:04:19 UTC

"tiglath" wrote...

Post by tiglath
I've decided to get a Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro, but thanks
anyway.

Don't waste your money. The Behringer is a better mixer
and half the price.

What Behringer mixer directly correlates to the Mackie
1402? Same number of mic pres, etc.

Not sure. Look in the catalogue or at the website.

Perfect example of Phil's live sound expertise based on his
poor memory of catalog pages.

Tim Scott

2005-10-12 13:20:01 UTC

"tiglath" wrote...

Post by tiglath
I've decided to get a Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro, but thanks
anyway.

Don't waste your money. The Behringer is a better mixer
and half the price.

What Behringer mixer directly correlates to the Mackie
1402? Same number of mic pres, etc.

Not sure. Look in the catalogue or at the website.

Perfect example of Phil's live sound expertise based on his poor memory of
catalog pages.

What you expect Phil (or any sound engineer not involved in sales) to have
complete knowledge of the lower end of the market products?

Comparing Behringer and Makie products in general, as Phil was doing, there
won't be exactly the same mixers just with the different brand names printed
on them. But quality wise you will get a better product for your money from
Behinger, so take what you want from the Makie sound desk and the money, and
then go and look at what you can get from Behringer ... either use the money
to get a better than you need at the moment (usually a good idea when buying
a mixer anyway as it gives you room to expand), or find a mixer of similar
spec and pocket the money you'll save, or buy another toy with it.

Arny Krueger

2005-10-12 14:01:17 UTC

Post by Tim Scott

Post by Arny Krueger

"tiglath" wrote...

Post by tiglath
I've decided to get a Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro, but thanks
anyway.

Don't waste your money. The Behringer is a better
mixer and half the price.

What Behringer mixer directly correlates to the Mackie
1402? Same number of mic pres, etc.

Not sure. Look in the catalogue or at the website.

Perfect example of Phil's live sound expertise based on
his poor memory of catalog pages.

What you expect Phil (or any sound engineer not involved
in sales) to have complete knowledge of the lower end of
the market products?

Never did any such thing.

Here's an interesting concept - talk about things you have
experience with.

I only have experience with one Mackie console - the SR32
and only one Behringer console - a MXB 1002. So when it
comes to Mackie and Behringer console I try to stick close
to them or keep quiet, or label my comments as what they
are - comments from friends or based on analysis of vendor
info.

Phil and George rant about people's lack of experience and
pretentions of expertise. So, what about theirs?

George recommends a console with TRS jacks and damns another
console because it has TRS jacks, all in the same thread.

Phil suggests a Behringer console as an alternative to the
Mackie 1402 and then looks silly when he can't come up with
the model number of a corresponding Behringer console.

Tim, don't you think its a good thing to judge people for
consistency, ability to stand behind their claims, and depth
of knowlege in areas that they claim to be expert on?

Phildo

2005-10-12 15:21:57 UTC

Post by Arny Krueger

Post by Tim Scott
What you expect Phil (or any sound engineer not involved
in sales) to have complete knowledge of the lower end of
the market products?

Never did any such thing.

Seems like you do Arny.

Post by Arny Krueger
Here's an interesting concept - talk about things you have experience
with.

I have experience with mackie and Behringer products and know that the
Behringer is a better desk than the mackie for less than half the price. WHy
do you seem to have a problem, with that?

Post by Arny Krueger
I only have experience with one Mackie console - the SR32 and only one
Behringer console - a MXB 1002. So when it comes to Mackie and Behringer
console I try to stick close to them or keep quiet, or label my comments
as what they are - comments from friends or based on analysis of vendor
info.

I have experience with quite a few models from both companies going back
over 10 years. Your point Arny?

Post by Arny Krueger
Phil and George rant about people's lack of experience and pretentions of
expertise. So, what about theirs?

We are both professional sound engineers with many years of experience,
unlike yourself who volunteers in his local church because nobody else
wanted the job and yet tried to pass himself off as an expert on everything.

Post by Arny Krueger
George recommends a console with TRS jacks and damns another console
because it has TRS jacks, all in the same thread.

Jeez, get off this TRS thing Arny. Most of it is in your head anyway. All
you are doing is taking people out of context. Remember, it was YOU who was
made a complete fool of in that thread (and almost any thread you post in
come to think of it).

Post by Arny Krueger
Phil suggests a Behringer console as an alternative to the Mackie 1402 and
then looks silly when he can't come up with the model number of a
corresponding Behringer console.

Why should I as a professional engineer doing a job you can only dream about
doing know the catalogue number of every piece of kit out there? You are
living in a dreamworld Arny.

Post by Arny Krueger
Tim, don't you think its a good thing to judge people for consistency,
ability to stand behind their claims, and depth of knowlege in areas that
they claim to be expert on?

That has to be THE most hypocritical and ironic statement made on here this
year.

Phildo

Phildo

2005-10-12 14:41:02 UTC

Post by hank alrich
What Behringer mixer directly correlates to the Mackie
1402? Same number of mic pres, etc.

Not sure. Look in the catalogue or at the website.

Perfect example of Phil's live sound expertise based on his poor memory of
catalog pages.

Arny, I am a sound engineer not a salesman. I do the job on a daily basis
that you wish you did, using gear you can only dream about. Just because I
am not up to date on the specs of the small format Behringer desks (which at
my level of work I rarely use) does not make me any less of a sound
engineer.

Your logic is terminally flawed by your desire to try and humiliate me the
way I do to you several times a day. The big difference here Arny is that I
know my shit while you are just full of it.

Phildo

John Hall

2005-10-12 15:12:38 UTC

Post by Phildo
Your logic is terminally flawed by your desire to try and humiliate me the
way I do to you several times a day. The big difference here Arny is that
I know my shit while you are just full of it.

You both need to just grow up in my eyes.

john

hank alrich

2005-10-12 16:00:06 UTC

"Phildo" wrote...

You both need to just grow up in my eyes.

You'll need very small eyes for them at this rate. <g>

--
ha

Phildo

2005-10-12 16:58:11 UTC

Post by John Hall

Post by Phildo
Your logic is terminally flawed by your desire to try and humiliate me
the way I do to you several times a day. The big difference here Arny is
that I know my shit while you are just full of it.

You both need to just grow up in my eyes.

Get yourself to an optician then dickwad.

Phildo

hank alrich

2005-10-12 18:06:47 UTC

Post by John Hall

Post by Phildo
Your logic is terminally flawed by your desire to try and humiliate me
the way I do to you several times a day. The big difference here Arny is
that I know my shit while you are just full of it.

You both need to just grow up in my eyes.

Get yourself to an optician then dickwad.
Phildo

You prove his point.

--
ha

mfassett@pacbell.net

2005-10-12 17:32:21 UTC

Post by Arny Krueger
Perfect example of Phil's live sound expertise based on his
poor memory of catalog pages.

You know, I'm really thinking I should just butt out, because it seems
more and more like you two guys (you and Phildo) deserve each other.

Can you guys just stop your incessant sniping at each other? Sheesh.

Arny Krueger

2005-10-12 17:45:57 UTC

Post by Arny Krueger
Perfect example of Phil's live sound expertise based on
his poor memory of catalog pages.

You know, I'm really thinking I should just butt out,
because it seems more and more like you two guys (you and
Phildo) deserve each other.
Can you guys just stop your incessant sniping at each
other? Sheesh.

Do a count - Phil out-snipes me by a large ratio. I ignore
his snipes for days at a time, but the $#@!! eventually gets
to me.

mfassett@pacbell.net

2005-10-12 21:34:05 UTC

Post by Arny Krueger
Do a count - Phil out-snipes me by a large ratio. I ignore
to me.

You may be right, but does it really matter who outsnipes who? I think
you BOTH should give it a rest. The amount of time you guys spend on
all the negative crap... just think about what you could do if you tried
something POSITIVE with the same amount of time?

Yea, that's right, *I'm* the troll here. LOL.

Arny Krueger

2005-10-12 22:03:42 UTC

Post by Arny Krueger
Do a count - Phil out-snipes me by a large ratio. I
eventually gets to me.

You may be right, but does it really matter who outsnipes
who?

With Phil Jones doing his thing, ignoring snipes is like an
endurance run.

Post by ***@pacbell.net
I think you BOTH should give it a rest.

What I'm saying is that if I give a total rest, Phil
continues on and on and on.

Post by ***@pacbell.net
The amount of time you guys spend on all the negative
crap... just
think about what you could do if you tried something
POSITIVE with the same amount of time?

I do my best, but when I've got bunch of little dogs
nipping at my heels 24/7, its hard to keep totally quiet.

Tim Scott

2005-10-12 22:07:15 UTC

Post by Arny Krueger
Do a count - Phil out-snipes me by a large ratio. I
eventually gets to me.

You may be right, but does it really matter who outsnipes
who?

With Phil Jones doing his thing, ignoring snipes is like an endurance run.

Post by ***@pacbell.net
I think you BOTH should give it a rest.

What I'm saying is that if I give a total rest, Phil continues on and on
and on.

Post by ***@pacbell.net
The amount of time you guys spend on all the negative crap... just
think about what you could do if you tried something
POSITIVE with the same amount of time?

I do my best, but when I've got bunch of little dogs nipping at my heels
24/7, its hard to keep totally quiet.

Stop posting rubbish and giving the dogs anything to chew on

Phildo

2005-10-12 23:18:43 UTC

Post by Arny Krueger
Do a count - Phil out-snipes me by a large ratio. I
eventually gets to me.

You may be right, but does it really matter who outsnipes
who?

With Phil Jones doing his thing, ignoring snipes is like an endurance run.

Make it easy on yourself then - stop posting crap or leave.

Post by ***@pacbell.net
I think you BOTH should give it a rest.

What I'm saying is that if I give a total rest, Phil continues on and on
and on.

And when have you given it a total rest? I only reply when you post crap.

Post by ***@pacbell.net
The amount of time you guys spend on all the negative crap... just
think about what you could do if you tried something
POSITIVE with the same amount of time?

I do my best, but when I've got bunch of little dogs nipping at my heels
24/7, its hard to keep totally quiet.

Then all you need to do is stop posting crap. It really is that easy Arny.
You're not the victim here, much as you would like people to think. You post
crap, you start ALL the major flamewars on here and are in the middle of
every fracas.

Phildo

mfassett@pacbell.net

2005-10-12 23:49:59 UTC

Post by Arny Krueger
What I'm saying is that if I give a total rest, Phil
continues on and on and on.

Two words: higher ground.

Phildo

2005-10-12 22:38:02 UTC

Do a count - Phil out-snipes me by a large ratio. I ignore his snipes

You may be right, but does it really matter who outsnipes who?

It's not a case of sniping. The whole crux of the matter is that Arny gives
bad or downright wrong advice on here in nearly every post he makes. As long
as he continues to do that and pretend to be something he isn't then I will
continue to pull him up on his mistakes.

Post by ***@pacbell.net
I think you BOTH should give it a rest. The amount of time you guys spend
on all the negative crap... just think about what you could do if you tried
something POSITIVE with the same amount of time?

I still give out advice as and where I can. I get plenty of free time on
here so can afford to show Arny up for what he is. Helps relieve the
boredom.

Post by ***@pacbell.net
Yea, that's right, *I'm* the troll here. LOL.

As anyone who reads your posting history will see........

Phildo

mfassett@pacbell.net

2005-10-12 23:53:48 UTC

Post by Phildo
It's not a case of sniping. The whole crux of the matter is that Arny gives
bad or downright wrong advice on here in nearly every post he makes.

So correct him, but I think you go way to far with your vindictive
insults and other assorted crapola.

Post by Phildo
As anyone who reads your posting history will see........

...will see that I dared speak the "b" word in vain... and they'll read
some very nice, kindhearted words from you. :)

Phildo

2005-10-13 10:44:01 UTC

Post by Phildo
It's not a case of sniping. The whole crux of the matter is that Arny
gives bad or downright wrong advice on here in nearly every post he
makes.

So correct him, but I think you go way to far with your vindictive insults
and other assorted crapola.

Arny will not be corrected. It is part of his disease that he sees himself
as never capable of being wrong.

Post by Phildo
As anyone who reads your posting history will see........

...will see that I dared speak the "b" word in vain... and they'll read
some very nice, kindhearted words from you. :)

They'll see you completely ignore proven facts and continue spouting crap
that is nothing but rumour and slander.

Phildo

mfassett@pacbell.net

2005-10-13 14:20:16 UTC

Post by Phildo
They'll see you completely ignore proven facts and continue spouting crap
that is nothing but rumour and slander.

LOL... what a guy!

Phildo

2005-10-13 15:22:27 UTC

Post by Phildo
They'll see you completely ignore proven facts and continue spouting crap
that is nothing but rumour and slander.

LOL... what a guy!

Hey, just pointing out the truth. It's all there in google for people to see
for themselves. You learned in the end but man did it take some time for you
to finally accept the facts.

Phildo

hank alrich

2005-10-13 19:32:55 UTC

Post by Phildo
Hey, just pointing out the truth. It's all there in google for people to see
for themselves. You learned in the end but man did it take some time for you
to finally accept the facts.

So he learnedm, eh? How long will it take you to understand that your
opinion isn't fact? Can you, learn, too?

--
ha

Phildo

2005-10-13 20:53:14 UTC

Post by Phildo
Hey, just pointing out the truth. It's all there in google for people to see
for themselves. You learned in the end but man did it take some time for you
to finally accept the facts.

So he learnedm, eh? How long will it take you to understand that your
opinion isn't fact? Can you, learn, too?

I know the difference between facts and opinions. Do you?

Phildo

mfassett@pacbell.net

2005-10-13 20:30:35 UTC

Post by Phildo
Hey, just pointing out the truth. It's all there in google for people to see
for themselves. You learned in the end but man did it take some time for you
to finally accept the facts.

My opinion on Behringer still stands... that is, I prefer to support
other companies. I never said I would not buy their products, never
said it was a hard and fast rule. I feel some of their past tactics
were unethical, IMO, and I personally found them distasteful. Again, my
opinion.

They are not the only company I feel that way about, BTW. Some
companies I won't patronize at ALL.

I also have acknowledged, very early in our FIRST thread a long time
ago, that it appears they have changed for the better, so I'm certainly
more apt to buy now.

So exactly what did I learn? What did you teach me? Nothing when it
comes to business ethics. You certainly haven't changed my opinion.

Actually, I learned a LOT here about pro audio though... particularly
about mains and subs by reading through threads, and a bit about
crossovers too. I would have preferred to not have to wade through the
muck in order to get to it, but it was worth the learning to me.

I also learned that many of you guys take yourselves WAY too seriously,
and don't seem to have much of a sense of humor. :)

Phildo

2005-10-13 20:54:17 UTC

Post by Phildo
Hey, just pointing out the truth. It's all there in google for people to
see for themselves. You learned in the end but man did it take some time
for you to finally accept the facts.

Ah, so you didn't learn after all, even after presented with facts.

So exactly what did I learn? What did you teach me? Nothing when it
comes to business ethics. You certainly haven't changed my opinion.

Then you haven't learned anything. Doesn't surprise me.

Phildo

mfassett@pacbell.net

2005-10-13 21:12:19 UTC

Post by Phildo
Ah, so you didn't learn after all, even after presented with facts.

That's right... YOU own facts, I own opinions. Hmm... I seem to have

Post by Phildo
I know the difference between facts and opinions. Do you?

I don't believe you understand the difference.

Post by Phildo
Then you haven't learned anything. Doesn't surprise me.

I thought you said I've learned? Man, git yer story straight son.

And with that, I'm out of this thread, unless you have something minty
fresh to discuss.

Phildo

2005-10-14 18:06:24 UTC

Post by Phildo
Ah, so you didn't learn after all, even after presented with facts.

That's right... YOU own facts, I own opinions.

Again you cannot tell the difference. You were presented with facts, you
chose to ignore them in favour of rumours that you had heard.

Post by ***@pacbell.net
Hmm... I seem to have read the following in one of your posts just a few

Post by Phildo
I know the difference between facts and opinions. Do you?

I don't believe you understand the difference.

I can say exactly the same for you.

Post by Phildo
Then you haven't learned anything. Doesn't surprise me.

I thought you said I've learned? Man, git yer story straight son.

I thought you had. Then you started posting crap again which showed very
clearly you haven't learned a thing.

Post by ***@pacbell.net
And with that, I'm out of this thread, unless you have something minty
fresh to discuss.

Nope, nothing new (although we both know you'll be back as you've said many
times you will leave a thread but just can't resist that one more post). You
still have failed to learn anything so there's nothing new to discuss until
you can get your head round the basics.

Phildo

Joe Kesselman

2005-10-13 01:45:03 UTC

Post by Phildo
I still give out advice as and where I can. I get plenty of free time on
here so can afford to show Arny up for what he is. Helps relieve the
boredom.

Yeah, but you're boring and wasting the time of other folks. Disagreeing
with information can be useful. Disagreeing with an individual is just
disagreeable.

You say some useful things. I don't wanna killfile you. But I also don't
want to waste time and energy dealing with insult wars, and it's getting
past the point of diminishing returns.

Joe Kesselman

2005-10-13 11:40:45 UTC

Ah, heck with it. "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time
and annoys the pig."

Tim Scott

2005-10-13 12:03:10 UTC

Post by Joe Kesselman
Ah, heck with it. "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time
and annoys the pig."

Can think of a few annoying pigs around here
;-)

Phildo

2005-10-12 19:39:15 UTC

Post by ***@pacbell.net
You know, I'm really thinking I should just butt out,
because it seems more and more like you two guys (you and
Phildo) deserve each other.
Can you guys just stop your incessant sniping at each
other? Sheesh.

Do a count - Phil out-snipes me by a large ratio. I ignore his snipes for

And with good reason Arny. You should not be posting here giving out advice.
You know nothing about professional live sound and are only here to try and
convince people you do. You waste everybody's time, give out consistently
bad advice and can never accept you are wrong about anything, even when it
is blatantly so.

I will stop sniping when you either leave the group (hopefully to get the
professional medical help you so badly need) or realise that you don't know
anything and stick to discussing what you know instead of spouting crap
(which, when it comes to live sound, is precious little).

Phildo

hank alrich

2005-10-12 15:25:57 UTC

"hank alrich" wrote...

"tiglath" wrote...

Post by tiglath
I've decided to get a Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro, but thanks anyway.

Don't waste your money. The Behringer is a better mixer and half the price.

What Behringer mixer directly correlates to the Mackie 1402? Same number
of mic pres, etc.

Not sure. Look in the catalogue or at the website.
For the money you have to spend you could get something bigger in a
Behringer and leave yourself room to expand.

I cannot find in the Beri line anything that directly matches the 1402
when it comes to number of mic pres, size, weight, etc. If I don't need
to expand (I have other consoles) and size is important (I don't like to
carry more than I need when performing) the 1402 looks like a ticket.

I'm going through this right now. My approx. 14-yr. old 1202 is finally
going to wear out. The 1402, which wasn't around when I bought the 1202,
offers just about the right collection of features. I would like to
spend less, yes, but not if it means I have to carry a wallwart or more
weight or size. I'd much prefer the EQ on the Onyx line (this EQ is
outstanding), but again, the Onyx 1620 is much larger than the 1402 and
that might be a deal breaker in this case.

One does not always need to expand, and one sometimes prefers compact
expediency when carrying one's own performing kit. "Something bigger" is
not always desirable.

--
ha

George Gleason

2005-10-12 15:36:08 UTC

"hank alrich" wrote...

"tiglath" wrote...

Post by tiglath
I've decided to get a Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro, but thanks anyway.

Don't waste your money. The Behringer is a better mixer and half the price.

What Behringer mixer directly correlates to the Mackie 1402? Same
number of mic pres, etc.

Not sure. Look in the catalogue or at the website.
For the money you have to spend you could get something bigger in a
Behringer and leave yourself room to expand.

I cannot find in the Beri line anything that directly matches the 1402
when it comes to number of mic pres, size, weight, etc. If I don't
need to expand (I have other consoles) and size is important (I don't
like to carry more than I need when performing) the 1402 looks like a
ticket.
I'm going through this right now. My approx. 14-yr. old 1202 is
finally going to wear out. The 1402, which wasn't around when I bought
the 1202, offers just about the right collection of features. I would
like to spend less, yes, but not if it means I have to carry a
wallwart or more weight or size. I'd much prefer the EQ on the Onyx
line (this EQ is outstanding), but again, the Onyx 1620 is much larger
than the 1402 and that might be a deal breaker in this case.
One does not always need to expand, and one sometimes prefers compact
expediency when carrying one's own performing kit. "Something bigger"
is not always desirable.
--
ha

consider for a moment, on small desks like these a line lump is actually
to your advantage allowing a quieter desk(the ps is the major source of
noise in a desk) and a desk without the heat of a internal p/s

given two identical small mixers like the 1402(which I have owned
several) I would consider the one with the external ps to have a clear
advantage both in sound quality and reliability
George

Tim Scott

2005-10-12 16:33:19 UTC

"hank alrich" wrote...

"tiglath" wrote...

Post by tiglath
I've decided to get a Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro, but thanks anyway.

Don't waste your money. The Behringer is a better mixer and half the price.

What Behringer mixer directly correlates to the Mackie 1402? Same
number of mic pres, etc.

Not sure. Look in the catalogue or at the website.
For the money you have to spend you could get something bigger in a
Behringer and leave yourself room to expand.

I cannot find in the Beri line anything that directly matches the 1402
when it comes to number of mic pres, size, weight, etc. If I don't
need to expand (I have other consoles) and size is important (I don't
like to carry more than I need when performing) the 1402 looks like a
ticket.
I'm going through this right now. My approx. 14-yr. old 1202 is
finally going to wear out. The 1402, which wasn't around when I bought
the 1202, offers just about the right collection of features. I would
like to spend less, yes, but not if it means I have to carry a
wallwart or more weight or size. I'd much prefer the EQ on the Onyx
line (this EQ is outstanding), but again, the Onyx 1620 is much larger
than the 1402 and that might be a deal breaker in this case.
One does not always need to expand, and one sometimes prefers compact
expediency when carrying one's own performing kit. "Something bigger"
is not always desirable.
--
ha

consider for a moment, on small desks like these a line lump is actually
to your advantage allowing a quieter desk(the ps is the major source of
noise in a desk) and a desk without the heat of a internal p/s
given two identical small mixers like the 1402(which I have owned
several) I would consider the one with the external ps to have a clear
advantage both in sound quality and reliability

And is easier/quicker to replace an external PSU than an internal one.

Tim Scott

2005-10-12 16:47:30 UTC

"hank alrich" wrote...

"tiglath" wrote...

Post by tiglath
I've decided to get a Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro, but thanks anyway.

Don't waste your money. The Behringer is a better mixer and half the price.

What Behringer mixer directly correlates to the Mackie 1402? Same number
of mic pres, etc.

Not sure. Look in the catalogue or at the website.
For the money you have to spend you could get something bigger in a
Behringer and leave yourself room to expand.

I cannot find in the Beri line anything that directly matches the 1402
when it comes to number of mic pres, size, weight, etc. If I don't need
to expand (I have other consoles) and size is important (I don't like to
carry more than I need when performing) the 1402 looks like a ticket.
I'm going through this right now. My approx. 14-yr. old 1202 is finally
going to wear out. The 1402, which wasn't around when I bought the 1202,
offers just about the right collection of features. I would like to
spend less, yes, but not if it means I have to carry a wallwart or more
weight or size. I'd much prefer the EQ on the Onyx line (this EQ is
outstanding), but again, the Onyx 1620 is much larger than the 1402 and
that might be a deal breaker in this case.
One does not always need to expand, and one sometimes prefers compact
expediency when carrying one's own performing kit. "Something bigger" is
not always desirable.

Looking at the behringer and makie websites, it would seem that the
Behringer Eurorack MX1804X is comparable to the Makie 1402.
Has 2 auxes, 14 channels, 6 mic pres.
On top of that it includes built in FX, A sweepable freq mid EQ, and a 7
band graph.

As to prices, I cannot find any on the mackie site, and I cannot find the
MX1804X on the Behringer site's price list - so I do not know how they
compare, but would be interested for someone who does know to tell me.

hank alrich

2005-10-12 18:06:48 UTC

Post by Tim Scott
On top of that it includes built in FX, A sweepable freq mid EQ, and a 7
band graph

No thanks to the FX and definitely passing on the built-in graphic.
Pieces of little shit, are those kind of EQ's. Lots of times what's
feeding the 1202 are good pres and often good EQ's and decent dynamics
controllers, too. Great River MP2-MH > Drawmer DL241 > Speck ASC > 1202.

As happy as I am with the DEQ2496's I don't rule out Beri on prejudice.
I know what I need, and it isn't in the Beri line.

--
ha

Tim Scott

2005-10-12 18:25:14 UTC

Post by Tim Scott
On top of that it includes built in FX, A sweepable freq mid EQ, and a 7
band graph

No thanks to the FX and definitely passing on the built-in graphic.
Pieces of little shit, are those kind of EQ's. Lots of times what's
feeding the 1202 are good pres and often good EQ's and decent dynamics
controllers, too. Great River MP2-MH > Drawmer DL241 > Speck ASC > 1202.
As happy as I am with the DEQ2496's I don't rule out Beri on prejudice.
I know what I need, and it isn't in the Beri line.

So, even without the extras, i.e. if you ignore them, how do the two desks
weigh up in other ways, like size and price?

hank alrich

2005-10-14 19:01:06 UTC

Post by Tim Scott
Looking at the behringer and makie websites, it would seem that the
Behringer Eurorack MX1804X is comparable to the Makie 1402.
Has 2 auxes, 14 channels, 6 mic pres.
On top of that it includes built in FX, A sweepable freq mid EQ, and a 7
band graph.
As to prices, I cannot find any on the mackie site, and I cannot find the
MX1804X on the Behringer site's price list - so I do not know how they
compare, but would be interested for someone who does know to tell me.

Apparently the MX1804X has just been superceded (website changed out
overnight). Maybe that's why its price disppeared (I couldn't find it,
either). The new model is the 1832FX Pro. I'm gathering comparison stats
for a few Beri's, some little Mackies, a small Mix Wiz, and within a few
daze <!> I'll get back with that.

Did find a neat little battery powerable Beri, the UB1002, which could
be really handy for me in some situations. I have a Klein & Hummel
TRA100 portable PA box that can run for hours on its battery, and the
1002 with it could make for a really handy rig for certian small social
settings where I perform. Specs aren't to die for, but in those
circumstances it might do nicely.

Thanks, all, for the pointers.

--
ha

Steve Scott

2005-10-13 03:33:12 UTC

Post by tiglath
Thank you for your reply, but the Bose PAS was only incidental to my
post. My question was rather whether the Yamaha AW16G is anywhere
near as a mixer as the Mackie and the Behringer I mentioned, and
which of the two mixers is best to get for home use.

The issue is the presets in the bose prevent lots of gear from
interacting with it in the "expected " way
the fact your using the bose makes it central to your question
George

tiglath -

I've owned the AW16G and the PAS, at the same time, and tried to use
them together. And I tried the PAS with other mixers, including some
very nice A&H and Pendulum equipment.

The advice George Gleason gave you is exactly right. That single "line
array" will absolutely not perform as a traditional speaker system
controlled by a mix. It is intended to amplify *one* source at a time.
It couldn't even do a decent job with a singer playing a guitar at the
same time for me. Duet? Trio? Forget it.

The AW16G is a nice little machine. I used it for some minor live
work, but it's very awkward for that. The nested EQ/dynamics/FX menus
are just too slow to hunt down in a show, especially if you are running
it yourself. And setting up for any kind of monitoring is a pain. You
can use it if you really want to with a lot of scene programming, but
it wasn't worth it to me.

Steve

tiglath

2005-10-14 18:10:47 UTC

Post by Steve Scott
I've owned the AW16G and the PAS, at the same time, and tried to use
them together. And I tried the PAS with other mixers, including some
very nice A&H and Pendulum equipment.
The advice George Gleason gave you is exactly right. That single "line
array" will absolutely not perform as a traditional speaker system
controlled by a mix. It is intended to amplify *one* source at a time.
It couldn't even do a decent job with a singer playing a guitar at the
same time for me. Duet? Trio? Forget it.

Thank you for your refreshing post.

I have two PAS and used them in my basement as stereo sound system and
band practice system.

As a stereo system it outperforms my previous setup with powered 15"
and 18" subs. The clarity is much better. The Bose B1 subs give tight
low end but just not enough of it. So I kept the 18" powered JBLs,
turned down to around 60% -- a bit more if I use the kick drum.

I route all sources to the PAS through a Mackie 1402 VLZ-Pro. I can't
tell if it is better than the Behringers, but the manual sure is. It
does what I need anyway.

You are right, if you mix too many sources the PAS goes to mud, so for
band practice I used one PAS in mono for backing tracks, CDs, etc., and
the other PAS for my guitar. One thing the PAS is good for is for the
POD XT. It's the first time I've been able to hear the POD's excellent
patches as well as with headphones. The Taylor T5 acoustic/electric
sounds just great straight into the PAS.

I haven't tried to put the bass or drums with it at the same time, but
since I am a one-man band, it's one thing at a time anyway.

All I need now is a few bass traps to tame my large basement's
acoustics. They are so expensive, though, it's a sin. I checked Tube
Traps and Real Traps and they want 2 grand at least to do what I
need... Phew!

Post by Steve Scott
The AW16G is a nice little machine. I used it for some minor live
work, but it's very awkward for that.

I realized that when I tried to use it as a mixer. It's a nice
recorder, though.

Cheers.

hank alrich

2005-10-14 19:01:08 UTC

Post by tiglath
All I need now is a few bass traps to tame my large basement's
acoustics. They are so expensive, though, it's a sin. I checked Tube
Traps and Real Traps and they want 2 grand at least to do what I
need... Phew!

Yeah, but Realtraps gives you your money's worth, and on top of that, if
you can't afford to buy RT's, Ethan provides free info on his website
from which you could assemble your own traps. You won't get performance
quite as good as RT's, because Ethan's traps have a proprietary membrane
material that outperforms generic substitutes. You could build your own,
and for considerably less.

But consider what the Boses cost you, and ask youself why you are
complaining that it'd cost two grand to trap your room.

--
ha

Tiglath

2005-10-14 21:03:54 UTC

Thanks for the info.

Post by hank alrich
But consider what the Boses cost you, and ask youself why you are
complaining that it'd cost two grand to trap your room.

The answer is: (1) Ignorance. I have never heard what traps do for you.
Every place I've been that already has them I don't know what it sounded
like before. (2) My basement is overlarge with flat parallel walls, even my
Meridian sounds strange down there. I wouldn't expect the PAS to resolve
the room's acoustic deficiencies either.

hank alrich

2005-10-15 05:10:36 UTC

"hank alrich" wrote...

Post by hank alrich
But consider what the Boses cost you, and ask youself why you are
complaining that it'd cost two grand to trap your room.

The answer is: (1) Ignorance. I have never heard what traps do for you.
Every place I've been that already has them I don't know what it sounded
like before.

Makes sense. <g>

(2) My basement is overlarge with flat parallel walls, even my
Meridian sounds strange down there. I wouldn't expect the PAS to resolve
the room's acoustic deficiencies either.

Right. Dispersion is the point of those. Won't do much for unfortuante
dimensions or surfaces, but that's where traps can make a difference.

--
ha

Tiglath

2005-10-15 22:15:07 UTC

Post by Tiglath
(2) My basement is overlarge with flat parallel walls, even my
Meridian sounds strange down there. I wouldn't expect the PAS to resolve
the room's acoustic deficiencies either.

Right. Dispersion is the point of those. Won't do much for unfortuante
dimensions or surfaces, but that's where traps can make a difference.

I'm seriously thinking about it. Tube or Real? Is there a consensus as to
which work best? Are they placed right into the corners or away from them?

Thanks.

Tiglath

2005-10-07 13:20:51 UTC

Post by hank alrich
If you're doing this at home just go ahead and use the Yamaha for a
while to see i8f it will do what you need to do with it. It wouldn't be
anybody's first choice for pro SR work, but you won't be the first to
use it for a PA mixer. It has what you'd need to do simple reinforcement
mixing. Learning how to use it for that will keep you busy in the
beginning, but that's how you find out if it's a solution for your
problem.

Reasonable. Thanks.

Phildo

2005-10-05 22:32:50 UTC

Post by tiglath
That Larry Carlton uses a Mackie in his live rig tells me that it must
sound good.

No, it tells you that mackie pay him a lot of money to use it. Quite often
endorsed gear appears in the racks but is not actually in the signal chain.
Other people use things like guitar amps but put their own custom
electronics in them.

Phildo

Pooh Bear

2005-10-12 03:46:25 UTC

Post by tiglath
I was considering getting a Mackie 1402-VLZ PRO Compact Mixer or a
Behringer Eurorack UB1832FX-PRO to go with my new Bose PAS PA.

AAaaarrrgghhhHH *~@%%

You used the B-word ! And I don't mean behringer.

Wash your mouth out immediately. Pls don't post the B-word again.

Graham

Phildo

2005-10-12 22:19:52 UTC

Post by Pooh Bear

Post by tiglath
I was considering getting a Mackie 1402-VLZ PRO Compact Mixer or a
Behringer Eurorack UB1832FX-PRO to go with my new Bose PAS PA.

You used the B-word ! And I don't mean behringer.
Wash your mouth out immediately. Pls don't post the B-word again.

Just in case he didn't get it:

Bring
Other
Sound
Equipment

I hear no highs,
I feel no lows,
it sounds like crap,
it MUST be bose.

Phildo

tiglath

2005-10-14 17:46:53 UTC

Gee...

I didn't check my post for a few days and my little thread starter has
grown into a full-fledged flame war. Unfuckingbelievable.

I'd never been in the sound-engineering world before, nice peek...

My question was barely answered, thanks anyway, but it sure did provide
firm foothold to launch a frenzy of attacks. You guys have issues, try
oxygen.

Just give me three steps Mister towards the door and you'll see me no
more...

George Gleason

2005-10-14 17:51:46 UTC

Post by tiglath
Gee...
I didn't check my post for a few days and my little thread starter has
grown into a full-fledged flame war. Unfuckingbelievable.
I'd never been in the sound-engineering world before, nice peek...
My question was barely answered, thanks anyway, but it sure did provide
firm foothold to launch a frenzy of attacks. You guys have issues, try
oxygen.
Just give me three steps Mister towards the door and you'll see me no
more...

Ok to directly answer your question in as On topic as possible at
alt.audio.pro.live sound, without flame, prejudice,or insuation

your question as stated in the header for this thread
"is the Yamaha AW16c Good as a mixer"

Answer, as on topic and accurate as posible from a PRO LIVE SOUND pov

NO

George

Robert McTigue

2005-10-14 18:10:33 UTC

Ok to directly answer your question in as On topic as possible at
alt.audio.pro.live sound, without flame, prejudice,or insuation
your question as stated in the header for this thread
"is the Yamaha AW16c Good as a mixer"
Answer, as on topic and accurate as posible from a PRO LIVE SOUND pov
NO
George

Ditto

--
Touched by his Noodly Appendage

John O

2005-10-14 18:46:18 UTC

Post by tiglath
My question was barely answered, thanks anyway, but it sure did provide
firm foothold to launch a frenzy of attacks. You guys have issues, try
oxygen.

Everybody thinks he's smarter than everybody else, and no-one will let any
possible error go unchallenged. The S/N ratio has gotten pretty bad. (and
no, it's not "his" fault.)

-John O

tiglath

2005-10-14 18:50:24 UTC

Post by Pooh Bear

Post by tiglath
I was considering getting a Mackie 1402-VLZ PRO Compact Mixer or a
Behringer Eurorack UB1832FX-PRO to go with my new Bose PAS PA.

You used the B-word ! And I don't mean behringer.
Wash your mouth out immediately. Pls don't post the B-word again.

Bring
Other
Sound
Equipment
I hear no highs,
I feel no lows,
it sounds like crap,
it MUST be bose.
Phildo

By reading a few of your interlocutors I see you have a reputation of
being highly opinionated and given to universal statements and absolute
pontifications.

I have a Meridian stereo system in my living room; I have not heard
finer equipment. I have a Bose system in my bedroom, tiny speakers
single sub; it sounds great, and I have two PAS in my basement for band
practice; couldn't be happier.

While the sound my Meridian is better than the Bose the thought is
"it'd better be" at almost ten times the price. My Bose systems are
perfectly all right for easy listening, parties, and for performing
live when I don't feel like carrying my Marshall stack around.

God gave other people ears too, and it might occur to you that they may
be able to discern sound quality as well as you do, even if your
subjective evaluation doesn't agree.

It is also good to remember than in claims on subjective issues like
music, movies, art, etc., there is no right or wrong. Despite the
wording, they are all expressions of taste, not expressions of
judgment. While an expression of judgment is only as good as the
evidence that supports it, an expression of taste needs not be
justified. The world would be a far better place if more people
understood that and didn't try to impose their tastes and predilections
on others, or short of that mock other people for having different
taste.

No to long ago people use to slit speakers with razors to get a
distorted sound. One day distortion is a plague the next day it's a
chic sound.

Butt
Out
Sad
Engineer.

Won't hear highs
Out with the lows
If Phil's not enticed
It's cons and no pros.

George Gleason

2005-10-14 19:09:26 UTC

Post by tiglath
God gave other people ears too, and it might occur to you that they may
be able to discern sound quality as well as you do, even if your
subjective evaluation doesn't agree.

Pro live sound isn't about the toys in your basement
I have one person whom the PAS is the absolute perfect unit for
solo finger style acoustic guitar through a soundboard vtransducer

I can point to endless lines of others it has failed miserably for
the end conclusion one draws for hundreds of real life experiances is the
Bose Pas CAN possibly be exactly what you need, but the chances of that are
very much against you

If your happy with it fine, I thought I was happy with my Takamine until I
understood what a good guitar sound was

I get paid well to salvage gigs where people who "thought the pas sounded
great in my basement" actually try to use it with bands on stage

As I started this gig with
ASK the muso's over at rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
this is a muso owned type unit(like the fender passport)and has no
application in pro live sound

In fact the response you liked(steve's)came from
someone I sold a upgraded pa(a&h icon , sls 8190 speakers) after his pas
system proved unuseable as a live sound PA

George

Tiglath

2005-10-14 21:33:55 UTC

Post by tiglath
God gave other people ears too, and it might occur to you that they may
be able to discern sound quality as well as you do, even if your
subjective evaluation doesn't agree.

Pro live sound isn't about the toys in your basement
I have one person whom the PAS is the absolute perfect unit for
solo finger style acoustic guitar through a soundboard vtransducer
I can point to endless lines of others it has failed miserably for
the end conclusion one draws for hundreds of real life experiances is the
Bose Pas CAN possibly be exactly what you need, but the chances of that are
very much against you
If your happy with it fine, I thought I was happy with my Takamine until I
understood what a good guitar sound was
I get paid well to salvage gigs where people who "thought the pas sounded
great in my basement" actually try to use it with bands on stage
As I started this gig with
ASK the muso's over at rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
this is a muso owned type unit(like the fender passport)and has no
application in pro live sound
In fact the response you liked(steve's)came from
someone I sold a upgraded pa(a&h icon , sls 8190 speakers) after his pas
system proved unuseable as a live sound PA

I won't poach out of field and discuss sound engineering with a sound
engineer, but I am a musician and have been making music since age six, and
thus I feel entitled to discuss the quality of what I hear. I also see
that when I think that a performance has rotten sound I usually have plenty
of company.

I don't make a living engineering sound but I've been to more live concerts
that I've seen movies. In my area there are several bands that use PAS,
and I have not heard a bad night of any of them. They all play small and
medium size clubs and they seem to understand how do their set up and gain
staging. On the other hand I've seen utterly professional outfits like
B.B. King in the Constitution Hall in D.C. put out the crappiest of sounds.
I am not a sound expert but I am an engineer in another field, and I have a
similar mindset. I gather that the number of variables that make up a
pleasant live sound is rather large. You can get a PAS to sound bad no
less that I can get my vintage Marshall to sound bad, but with experience
and practice I have been able to get the tone that made Marshall famous
without even thinking. I've only had the PAS for a week or so, and I can
say that I am pleased with them, and they can only get better. Last Sunday
I played a gig outdoors in a local festival with POD and PAS and it sounded
great, and only for the high gain/feedback stuff I missed the Marshall for a
moment.

The difficulty with the sort of comparison you are attempting is the "all
things being equal" part. I am sure you can produce several
counter-examples that would render any universal glowing report on the PAS
false, but you must recognize that there are places and ways when the system
performs well and "meets expectations," which is the definition of quality,
and that goes for more than just acoustic guitar playing.

George Gleason

2005-10-15 03:47:25 UTC

but you must recognize that there are places and ways when

the system performs well and "meets expectations," which is the
definition of quality, and that goes for more than just acoustic
guitar playing.

IMO the only time it has worked even as well as a traditional system
costing 1/2 as much was solo fingerstyle guitar to a dead silent church
any attempt to put a band through it you be better off getting Mr. Methane
to fart the song
of course that is just my opinion from over 20 years of running system for
every kind of act in every kind of venue across the USA
hardly the kind of experiance that ought be considered as haveing a slight
clue as to what I am saying
even though other PAS owners have written in saying my evaluation of the
unit is "Spot on"

go ahead enjoy it
I enjoyed my Takamine, my samick mixer, my sm48 mics, I have enjoyed all
kinds of shit

enjoy yours, some day the light will come on and you understand
no highs, no lows, must be bose
George

Tiglath

2005-10-15 23:42:04 UTC

Post by Tiglath
but you must recognize that there are places and ways when

the system performs well and "meets expectations," which is the
definition of quality, and that goes for more than just acoustic
guitar playing.

I don't think that "putting a band through it" is what Bose advocates. The
right use is for each band member to have his own PAS.

People don't put a band through a single Marshall, or Boogie, either.

I don't know enough to say what the difference is between the music coming
out of a CD, which obviously was mixed and recorded, and the mix that may
come out of my Mackie were I to put singer, guitar, bass, and drums into the
mixer and send the mix to the PAS. On the face of it there should be no
difference, but I don't really know for sure.

All I can say that CD music sound great though the PAS.

Post by Tiglath
of course that is just my opinion from over 20 years of running system for
every kind of act in every kind of venue across the USA
hardly the kind of experiance that ought be considered as haveing a slight
clue as to what I am saying
even though other PAS owners have written in saying my evaluation of the
unit is "Spot on"

I obviously have not hear the PAS in the settings where you have deemed it
to be a bad system. If by your necessarily limited experience on this
system you mean to make a universal statement about it, it would be arguing
from the particular to the general, which is often fallacious.

While I don't impugn your experience and expertise, it does no harm to the
excellent sound I hear coming out of my PAS setup.

Post by Tiglath
go ahead enjoy it
I enjoyed my Takamine, my samick mixer, my sm48 mics, I have enjoyed all
kinds of shit

Shit is good, a million flies can't be wrong.

Post by Tiglath
enjoy yours, some day the light will come on and you understand
no highs, no lows, must be bose

Pull a punch for a parting shot, and even has to borrow from Dildo for
it..., Disappointing.

Go ahead enjoy your sense of superiority and importance based on the
stubborness of seeing as objective that which is subjective. I have
enjoyed all kinds of similar pronouncements.

Tim Scott

2005-10-16 00:30:05 UTC

Post by George Gleason
enjoy yours, some day the light will come on and you understand
no highs, no lows, must be bose

Pull a punch for a parting shot, and even has to borrow from Dildo for
it..., Disappointing.

Come off it, you cannot give credit for that addage to Phildo. That 'song'
is well old, and well known by pros, and many non pros.
If you haven't heard it yet, then i would question your experience.

George Gleason

2005-10-16 00:37:16 UTC

Post by Tim Scott

Post by George Gleason
enjoy yours, some day the light will come on and you understand
no highs, no lows, must be bose

Pull a punch for a parting shot, and even has to borrow from Dildo
for it..., Disappointing.

Come off it, you cannot give credit for that addage to Phildo. That
'song' is well old, and well known by pros, and many non pros.
If you haven't heard it yet, then i would question your experience.

I first heard it about 1980/81 in refrence to the horrible 901 series II
George

Tiglath

2005-10-16 04:23:22 UTC

Post by Tim Scott

Post by George Gleason
enjoy yours, some day the light will come on and you understand
no highs, no lows, must be bose

Pull a punch for a parting shot, and even has to borrow from Dildo for
it..., Disappointing.

Come off it, you cannot give credit for that addage to Phildo. That 'song'
is well old, and well known by pros, and many non pros.
If you haven't heard it yet, then i would question your experience.

There is nothing to question. I never said I have any experience in sound
engineering or that I yearn to have any. I am a musician who plays for
fun. I have used most gear related to guitar amplification. When I play
out someone mikes my cab and we agree on base volume and head room, and they
take it from there. I know how to get a good tone out of my guitar and amp
but that's it. Sound is everything for you, but for a musician is only a
part of the whole thing, the actual music gets the most attention. I have
never used Bose equipment before as a musician.

The adage is simply incorrect. I played a gig today with the Bose and it
went terrific, I got compliments not only from the venues management but
from the rest of the band, and the sound guy, who I've known for donkeys
years and has seen everything.

While it may be true that some of you have worked with the best equipment
money can buy, it's intriguing why anyone would expect a 250 W x 3 system
costing $2000 system to be as good as the best equipment money can buy.

Just because you get to chauffeur a Rolls from time to time there is no need
to scorn Lexus owners.

I see also an almost religious rigidity against certain brands. If you
didn't like product A and B from Bose, it means that any product they might
put out from C to Z can't possibly be any good. You may or may not be
right about the Bose PAS but such doctrinaire rigidity does not indicate
that judicious thinking is at work here, but prejudice.

Only one poster had so far detailed what he thought of hearing a PAS. All
others have engaged in general bashing without being able to articulate how
and when the Bose PAS has turned out to be a horror.

A guy call George apparently thinks that the PAS is no good because you
can't put a whole band through it. That tells me that he has spend little
time learning the product he so readily bashes. Try putting a band through
my great sounding Marshall and see how you like it.

RTFM

George Gleason

2005-10-16 10:03:48 UTC

Post by Tiglath
A guy call George apparently thinks that the PAS is no good because
you can't put a whole band through it. That tells me that he has
spend little time learning the product he so readily bashes. Try
putting a band through my great sounding Marshall and see how you like
it.

You enjoy selective reading

I said for a small minority , a very small minoity the Bose does work and
work well

and they are solo finger style acoustic artists using built in pick-ups

I have extensive experiance with the Pas , panaray , 802 and other bose
sound systems I am quite aware of what they are and what they do, and
what they don't do

So you could be one of the rare few that the bose works for or you could
be part of the hoard that fell victem to marketing and your struggling
to convince yourself your money was well spend

not actually hearing YOU through the bose I have to default to the other
40 or so people I have worked with that have the bose
ONE of them sounded about as good as a behringer powered head and two
Yamaha speakers
the rest didnt even approach what a 1000$ worth of traditional PA could
do

I get paid by sound of the best musicians in the world to do thier sound
because they trust my abilities
Oh and btw Comparing the PAS to a Lexus is spot on

A run of the mill car dressed up as the real deal and sold at a premimum
price because of effectvie marketing

Phildo

2005-10-16 08:04:17 UTC

Post by Tim Scott
Come off it, you cannot give credit for that addage to Phildo. That
'song' is well old, and well known by pros, and many non pros.
If you haven't heard it yet, then i would question your experience.

He has no experience. He's a dumbass musician who still thinks bose is pro
gear. He's here to cause trouble along with that Particular Salad twat.
Ignore the both of them and they'll go away.

Phildo

Tiglath

2005-10-16 09:27:19 UTC

He has no experience. He's a dumbass musician who still thinks bose is pro
gear.

You are so dimwitted that can't even discern that Bose makes different
categories of "gear."

Post by Phildo
He's here to cause trouble along with that Particular Salad twat.
Ignore the both of them and they'll go away.

You are a liar too? It was you, Phildo the Dildo, who first resorted to
invective, unprovoked. Now you face "trouble." It happens to verbal
bullies sooner or later. Hiding behind your killfile will not protect you
from being derided and mocked in public, but I can understand your wanting
to pretend you don't care. There seem to be a few people here who dislike
you intensely and won't mind seeing you skewered.

Happy to oblige.

You should go back to Dildo school, boy.

"Pro" is short for professional. "Professional" means to be engaged in an
activity as a source of livelihood or as a career.

There are plenty of professional musicians using Bose PAS, they are all over
the Internet too. Todd Rundgren seems to be using two PAS on tour at the
moment. That makes the Bose PAS "professional gear" whether you like it or
not.

But don't let that stop making more asinine comments and parading your dim
wattage; it's like catnip to me.

wee tam

2005-10-16 10:25:35 UTC

You big bully you ! Bad Tigger...

Whoever I am today...

Tam

by the looks of it....

Tiglath

2005-10-14 21:39:16 UTC

Post by George Gleason
If your happy with it fine, I thought I was happy with my Takamine until I
understood what a good guitar sound was

I know a little about guitars. It's not the brand, it's the guitar. I
have recently bought a Taylor T5. Guitar Center let me take a total of
thirteen of them home for an extended A/B session. All maple tops and all
spruce tops sounded roughly similar, but the difference between best and the
worst (to my ears) was pronounced. The Koa models were most interesting.
Among the five three were as lifeless as Julius Caesar, one was okay, and
one had the most exquisite tone. The difference between the best and the
worst was simply brutal -- all at the same price, no less, of about three
grand.

A few months ago I saw Nils Lofgren play a Takamine at the Estate Theater,
he got great bell tones and tight lows from it all the same.

Some people buy guitars without playing them first, and it makes as much
sense as buying a house you haven't seen, or shoes you haven't tried.

mfassett@pacbell.net

2005-10-14 22:09:39 UTC

Post by Tiglath
Some people buy guitars without playing them first, and it makes as much
sense as buying a house you haven't seen, or shoes you haven't tried.

A friend of mine wanted a Martin, so against my advice he bought one
from Musician's Friend or some other online retailer. Honestly, it
sounds OK, and plays OK, but my old Epiphone sounds and plays better,
and it's not that great of a guitar, 1970's vintage, probably not worth
more than $350. Might not even be solid top, I don't even know.

So I totally agree with you... it makes about as much sense as buying
speakers you haven't heard.

Tiglath

2005-10-15 23:27:38 UTC

Post by Tiglath
Some people buy guitars without playing them first, and it makes as much
sense as buying a house you haven't seen, or shoes you haven't tried.

A friend of mine wanted a Martin, so against my advice he bought one
from Musician's Friend or some other online retailer. Honestly, it
sounds OK, and plays OK, but my old Epiphone sounds and plays better,
and it's not that great of a guitar, 1970's vintage, probably not worth
more than $350. Might not even be solid top, I don't even know.
So I totally agree with you... it makes about as much sense as buying
speakers you haven't heard.

There your go.

And for guitars that is true even for the market top end.

Last year Fender made an 50th Anniversary Strat, a replica of the 1954
model. Each was built individually by a Fender Master Builder of the Custom
Shop. Masterbuilt guitars are usually $4K and up, but because it was a
special issue you could get one for $3.5K. Each was signed by the master
builder. I spent the almost the entire year visiting guitar retailers
trying them out. If there was a return policy I'd buy several of them play
them with my rig and then return the unwanted ones. I bought some 16 such
guitars and returned 15. They all had excellent craftsmanship, great neck,
and good setups, but the tone... the tone. Not even at that price could
Fender keep the tone consistent. I played some real lemons, and the one I
got was the best of sixteen -- to my ears -- and I will never sell that
guitar, it has the vintage vibe in spades and the wood figuring is intense,
something rare in Fenders. Again, there are a few fellows out there who
paid more than three grand for a masterbuilt Strat that sound like crap and
don't know it because it's the only one they played.

And then there are those who buy guitars in Ebay...

George Gleason

2005-10-15 03:52:19 UTC

Post by Tiglath
Some people buy guitars without playing them first, and it makes as
much sense as buying a house you haven't seen, or shoes you haven't
tried.

except when you live in a town that the best hanging on the wall guitar is
a yamaha apx

and you don't know that there are shops that stock real guitars because
they are 100 miles away

this was well before the internet and Musicuians friend or even the guitar
center
I had to order sight unseen, no refund or exchage on a "special order"
IMO the tak is a TPS(toneless Piece of shit
just to be clear the model was fp360sc
.
George

Tiglath

2005-10-15 23:48:08 UTC

Post by Tiglath
Some people buy guitars without playing them first, and it makes as
much sense as buying a house you haven't seen, or shoes you haven't
tried.

except when you live in a town that the best hanging on the wall guitar is
a yamaha apx
and you don't know that there are shops that stock real guitars because
they are 100 miles away
this was well before the internet and Musicuians friend or even the guitar
center
I had to order sight unseen, no refund or exchage on a "special order"
IMO the tak is a TPS(toneless Piece of shit
just to be clear the model was fp360sc

Poor excuse. My first Fender was bought in Africa in Zimbabwe, and I still
wanted to play it before I bought it; I hitch-hiked 500 miles to do it. A
person's effort to achieve good tone is proportional to the importance he
attributes to it.

George Gleason

2005-10-16 00:22:05 UTC

\ My first Fender was bought in Africa in Zimbabwe, and I

still wanted to play it before I bought it; I hitch-hiked 500 miles to
do it.

and this statment is supposed to impress me ?
sounds idiotic to spend 3 days and travel 1000 mile to play a mass produced
very average guitar

and I guess your saying that if you happemed to live right across the
street from this guitar it would have shitty tone because you wouldn't have
had to put any effort into getting it

your time must be way less valuable than mine
to spend it doing stunts like that
george

Tiglath

2005-10-16 00:35:40 UTC

Post by George Gleason
\ My first Fender was bought in Africa in Zimbabwe, and I

still wanted to play it before I bought it; I hitch-hiked 500 miles to
do it.

and this statment is supposed to impress me ?
sounds idiotic to spend 3 days and travel 1000 mile to play a mass produced
very average guitar

It took longer than three days, it was a journey AND a destination.

One such guitar fetched a million dollars in auction recently. Some magic
can be made with it perhaps?

If so, I doubt it can be done by those who regard it as a mere "mass
produced very average guitar," especially by one who confessedly is happy
playing a Takamine lemon.

Post by George Gleason
and I guess your saying that if you happemed to live right across the
street from this guitar it would have shitty tone because you wouldn't have
had to put any effort into getting it

I write in clear English, if you have any questions I'll be happy to answer
them, but don't put words into my mouth.

Post by George Gleason
your time must be way less valuable than mine
to spend it doing stunts like that.

I not always used time wisely in my misspent youth but criss-crossing Africa
in pursuit of a Fender or otherwise is a time I will always cherish. I
would certainly prefer that any day to sitting in a crowd or in a padded
room twiddling knobs for hours on end.

George Gleason

2005-10-16 00:46:34 UTC

Post by George Gleason
\ My first Fender was bought in Africa in Zimbabwe, and I

still wanted to play it before I bought it; I hitch-hiked 500 miles
to do it.

and this statment is supposed to impress me ?
sounds idiotic to spend 3 days and travel 1000 mile to play a mass

produced

Post by George Gleason
very average guitar

It took longer than three days, it was a journey AND a destination.
One such guitar fetched a million dollars in auction recently. Some
magic can be made with it perhaps?

so tone is determined by price?
I am beginning to think you arn't a muso at all
99% of the "tone" is the artist
you give Tony Rice a 30$ korean guitar he will still sound like Tony Rice

the money was spent because for the fame attached to the guitar
the tone still belongs to the artist

Post by George Gleason
If so, I doubt it can be done by those who regard it as a mere "mass
produced very average guitar," especially by one who confessedly is
happy playing a Takamine lemon.

some day you will develope the ear to hear why your pas sucks donkey dick
I learned about shitty guitars
luckily mine wasn't a 20000$ bitch slap the way yours will be

plank of wood chopped out of a slab with a band saw

Post by George Gleason
and I guess your saying that if you happemed to live right across the
street from this guitar it would have shitty tone because you
wouldn't

have

Post by George Gleason
had to put any effort into getting it

I write in clear English, if you have any questions I'll be happy to
answer them, but don't put words into my mouth.

read the thread agian
its all there
G

Tiglath

2005-10-16 05:23:38 UTC

Post by Tiglath
It took longer than three days, it was a journey AND a destination.
One such guitar fetched a million dollars in auction recently. Some
magic can be made with it perhaps?

so tone is determined by price?

Price is not a guaranted of good tone but it surely increases the likeliness
of getting it. Duh.

Post by George Gleason
I am beginning to think you arn't a muso at all

What's a muso?

Are you a mixo?

Post by George Gleason
99% of the "tone" is the artist

Really?

Then Jimi Page could play Whole a Lotta Love with your Dramamine and sound
99% like the the track in Led Zeppelin II, right?

If you play an instrument long enough you will develop your own style and IF
it is characteristic enough it will be recognizable whether you play any of
various similar instruments. A guitar on the other hand, has its own
characteristic tone, which is determined by the components of the resonant
system it constitutes; in an electric guitar it includes all the guitar
parts and its construction but mainly the pickups, the wood, and the
strings. That tone in inherent to the guitar and you can hear whether Tony
Rice plays it or whether a cat claws at the strings. Only ears familiar
with the tonal nuances of each guitar, like those of the musician who owns
them himself, can tell when he is playing a guitar or another; the
differences get harder to notice once the guitar sound goes through the
effects, the amplifier, and the cabs.

Some guitars are better resonant systems than others, that is measurable and
objective, but its tonality always involves subjective evaluation. Yet, it
is not uncommon to see a consensus on how great a guitar tone is or isn't.

You are confusing and conflating the artist's style with the guitar's tone.
A lot more than the tone of his guitar goes into making an artists style:
his note choice, his attack, his sense of timing, his technique, and
intangibles like his proficiency, passion, and intensity -- to name a few --
and those can be transmitted on ANY functioning guitar, even with guitars
with less than excellent tone. You ought to learn that important
difference.

Post by George Gleason
some day you will develope the ear to hear why your pas sucks donkey dick

If I do I hope I will be able to articulate it more elegantly and precisely.

A man so bent on disparaging the finer senses and good taste of others ought
to show he possesses some himself.

Post by George Gleason
I learned about shitty guitars
luckily mine wasn't a 20000$ bitch slap the way yours will be

If you believe that you are again arguing from the asylum of ignorance.

George Gleason

2005-10-16 10:16:33 UTC

Post by George Gleason
some day you will develope the ear to hear why your pas sucks donkey dick

If I do I hope I will be able to articulate it more elegantly and precisely.
A man so bent on disparaging the finer senses and good taste of others
ought to show he possesses some himself.

I tried that
it didn't get through your thick skull

remember I start this thread VERY respectful and gave you solid advice on
who and where to go to talk about junk like the PAS
it is a marketing sucess, nothing more nothing less
It is not a serious tool used to make quality sound for all but one
person I have experianced

In fact the sound from the thing is quite dreadful
And yes I believe Jimmy Page(if you hold him in high esteem for his tone,
I don't, I respect his technical abilities but his tone was pretty
average) could have easily done what he did on a epiphone sg copy

BTW last timeI "worked with "Jimmy he wasn't playing through a PAS
"worked with" being used loosly as I was a stage hand brought in on a
union call.
But it is a fact there were no Bose Pas, in fact NO BOSE anywhere near
the show

but nif you want to discuss guitar players there are people who will do
that for you all day

try rec.audio.opinion

George

George Gleason

2005-10-16 10:24:51 UTC

Post by Tiglath
It took longer than three days, it was a journey AND a destination.
One such guitar fetched a million dollars in auction recently.
Some magic can be made with it perhaps?

so tone is determined by price?

Price is not a guaranted of good tone but it surely increases the
likeliness of getting it. Duh.

As well as a sound guy I also happen to be a working muso playing
madolin, guitar,bass,cello, bass and banjo
I spend most my time behind a custom built Rigel r-100
Rigel has used me on their web site
www.rigelmandolin.com

I know tone, inside and out, where it comes from and how it is achieved
I state with experianced confidence the "tone" belongs to the artist, not
the equipment

George

Pooh Bear

2005-10-16 02:50:00 UTC

Post by George Gleason
\ My first Fender was bought in Africa in Zimbabwe, and I

still wanted to play it before I bought it; I hitch-hiked 500 miles to
do it.

and this statment is supposed to impress me ?
sounds idiotic to spend 3 days and travel 1000 mile to play a mass produced
very average guitar

Only idiotic to a small minded person who doesn't understand the context.

I'd expect *any* such guitar to be pretty rare in Africa. They don't have
Guitar Center on every street corner in Africa George !

Graham

Phildo

2005-10-14 21:46:44 UTC

Post by tiglath
By reading a few of your interlocutors I see you have a reputation of
being highly opinionated and given to universal statements and absolute
pontifications.

By reading a few of your posts on here I have come to the conclusion that
you are a know-nothing twat, very highly opinionated yourself, jealous of
those of us who actually work in pro audio at a level you can only dream of
and are very close to genuine trolldom.

Post by tiglath
I have a Meridian stereo system in my living room; I have not heard
finer equipment. I have a Bose system in my bedroom, tiny speakers
single sub; it sounds great, and I have two PAS in my basement for band
practice; couldn't be happier.
While the sound my Meridian is better than the Bose the thought is
"it'd better be" at almost ten times the price. My Bose systems are
perfectly all right for easy listening, parties, and for performing
live when I don't feel like carrying my Marshall stack around.

There is a big difference between Bose home stuff and their pro audio. Of
course, you being a know-nothing amateur you wouldn't know that.
Congratulations, you just made a complete tit of yourself in front of the
whole group. I grew up mixing on a bose system (802/302), I know their
strengths, weaknesses and how they compare with what is out there today.
Their professional gear is dated, over-marketed, overpriced and needs
drastic processing to sound anywhere near decent. Good for speech but that's
about it.

Post by tiglath
God gave other people ears too, and it might occur to you that they may
be able to discern sound quality as well as you do, even if your
subjective evaluation doesn't agree.

Well if you think Bose sounds good then sadly you were not one of those
people blessed with good ears.

Post by tiglath
It is also good to remember than in claims on subjective issues like
music, movies, art, etc., there is no right or wrong. Despite the
wording, they are all expressions of taste, not expressions of
judgment. While an expression of judgment is only as good as the
evidence that supports it, an expression of taste needs not be
justified. The world would be a far better place if more people
understood that and didn't try to impose their tastes and predilections
on others, or short of that mock other people for having different
taste.

Oh dear, you are much like the particle salad troll who also cannot tell the
difference between fact and opinion. How sad.

Post by tiglath
No to long ago people use to slit speakers with razors to get a
distorted sound. One day distortion is a plague the next day it's a
chic sound.

So? Bose was pretty good in its time, now it's overpriced, overmarketed
junk. The PAS (their latest offering) is unuseable in almost every situation

Post by tiglath
Butt
Out
Sad
Engineer.

How pathetic. The child is trying to be clever.

Post by tiglath
Won't hear highs
Out with the lows
If Phil's not enticed
It's cons and no pros.

Your jealousy shines through in every word you type.

Phildo

hank alrich

2005-10-15 05:10:37 UTC

Post by Phildo
By reading a few of your posts on here I have come to the conclusion that
you are a know-nothing twat, very highly opinionated yourself, jealous of
those of us who actually work in pro audio at a level you can only dream of
and are very close to genuine trolldom.

Ridiculous. Same old Phildo shit. It's past the point of hoping you
could ever get over yourself. Change a few nouns and you've described
_yourself_.

Your take on the guy is not even from left field; you're not in the
ballpark at all.

--
ha

Phildo

2005-10-15 07:54:54 UTC

Post by hank alrich
Your take on the guy is not even from left field; you're not in the
ballpark at all.

I calls em as I see em and this Tiglath child is nothing more than an
arrogant wannabe.

Phildo

hank alrich

2005-10-15 15:49:25 UTC

Post by Phildo
I calls em as I see em

And sometimes you're blind. You quite obviously didn't get that he isn't
interested in being a pro sound "engineer", he's an engineer, as in has
the sheepskin, and he plays music, sometimes in his basement and
sometimes out. He's bought the Bose PAS and is learning about it. Maybe
it will fit his needs. Maybe it won't. I don't want one of those and
neither do you. But that doesn't mean much of your post had anything
sensible to do with his life goals.

--
ha

mfassett@pacbell.net

2005-10-15 16:15:22 UTC

Post by hank alrich
He's bought the Bose PAS and is learning about it. Maybe
it will fit his needs. Maybe it won't. I don't want one of those and
neither do you.

Like I posted a while ago, I heard a band who was using one, and it
sounded good for their application.

There was one thing that was great about them that would be impossible
to achieve with a standard SR rig: localization. The band I heard was
playing outdoors, and even then, it was a joy to hear each musician come
from their own place in the soundstage. It made the mix sound much more
open. Unlike a stereo SR rig, you didn't need to be in the sweet spot
to hear this.

Yes, it's possible to do if the instruments are just playing from the
backline, but I'm talking about vocals and instruments. Each individual
person in the band had their instrument and vocal coming from where they
were on the stage.

Really, I LOVED that, and I wish there was a way to achieve this with a
system that wasn't so expensive, used better drivers, and was more
powerful.

I'm not sure, as I was never a Dead fan, but I thought the Dead were
doing something similar... someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I was hoping that someone would release a competing system that would up
the ante on sound quality and power while retaining the localization and
simplicity benefits.

Tiglath

2005-10-15 23:15:08 UTC

Post by Phildo
I calls em as I see em

Thank you for your reply.

I suggest with deal with The Dildo at a different level. I do have a love
for mockery and he is a happy find.

I would like, however, to continue to discuss sound issues seriously as
separately if possible for our Dildoing. If he runs under his bed and
killfiles me we can proceed undistracted, if he doesn't we can take breaks
to shoot arrows at his large butt. Whichever, it's a win-win situation.

What would be your recommendation for the usage I outlined? I have lots of
conventional guitar and bass amps, but the PAS has two main advantages
(alleged objections to its sound notwithstanding) (1) it makes the POD XT
sound great, as well as acoustic guitars, and (2) it can double up as a
stereo system. That means that I have a tough "disco" system for my
social gatherings in my basement to rock the joint, that I can plug my
Taylor acoustics into it and sound great, that I can use all my Line 6
modeling patches to play live instead of lugging heavy Marshall or Dr. Z
amps. So on the practicality side it's a winner definitely. On the sound
side, there is nothing so far that tells me that it's inferior to the JBL
powered speakers I had before. It's in fact a lot clearer and crisper for
recorded music.

I'd be most happy to hear better alternatives, regardless of price. I
don't need an arena setup as the few times I play out it's in small or
medium size clubs and exclusively guitar or sometimes bass.

What in your estimation would be the Rolls-Royce solution, and say, the BMW
solution? I think the PAS are around the Acura level, if that is not taking
the simile too far.

Phildo

2005-10-15 23:21:53 UTC

Post by Tiglath
I suggest with deal with The Dildo at a different level. I do have a love
for mockery and he is a happy find.

Oh dear, the child has managed to come up with an insult based on the very
word my nick is a parody of. Poor thing must have been up all night thinking
of that one before. Of course I haven't really heard it many times before,
no, honest, really I haven't.

1 out of 10, must try harder.

Phildo

Tiglath

2005-10-16 00:02:05 UTC

Post by Tiglath
I suggest with deal with The Dildo at a different level. I do have a love
for mockery and he is a happy find.

Then it must be music to your ears, Dildo. Happy to oblige.

How did you come to choose Dildo as your nickname?

Is it a reference to your mental rigidity, the large coleopteran up your
ass, or is it a compensating scheme?

mfassett@pacbell.net

2005-10-16 04:42:35 UTC

Post by Tiglath
Is it a reference to your mental rigidity, the large coleopteran up your
ass, or is it a compensating scheme?

Don't get sucked into the muck by our resident down-troller.

Tiglath

2005-10-16 05:37:29 UTC

Post by Tiglath
Is it a reference to your mental rigidity, the large coleopteran up your
ass, or is it a compensating scheme?

Don't get sucked into the muck by our resident down-troller.

Thanks. I learnt to wrestle pigs without getting dirty.

It's my fervent wish to treat everyone fairly and as warranted.

If someone is the victim of a bad education or abysmal upbringing, it is not
up to the rest of us to tolerate his bad manners, but up to him to behave or
swallow a large dose of his own medicine.

Phildo

2005-10-16 07:56:51 UTC

Post by Tiglath
Is it a reference to your mental rigidity, the large coleopteran up your
ass, or is it a compensating scheme?

Don't get sucked into the muck by our resident down-troller.

Thanks. I learnt to wrestle pigs without getting dirty.
It's my fervent wish to treat everyone fairly and as warranted.
If someone is the victim of a bad education or abysmal upbringing, it is not
up to the rest of us to tolerate his bad manners, but up to him to behave or
swallow a large dose of his own medicine.

Congratulations. You are only the second person on this group dumb enough to
enter my killfile along with Mr Allison.

Jeez, a petulant child of a muso trying to tell the pros how to do it.
Whatever next?

<PLONK>

Phildo

Tiglath

2005-10-16 08:58:34 UTC

Post by Tiglath
If someone is the victim of a bad education or abysmal upbringing, it is not
up to the rest of us to tolerate his bad manners, but up to him to

behave

Post by Tiglath
or
swallow a large dose of his own medicine.

Congratulations. You are only the second person on this group dumb enough to
enter my killfile along with Mr Allison.

Wow. He tires easily.

Veni, vidi, vici.

I never seen a Dildo with no staying power.

I can't blame the guy, though, for cutting his losses and doing himself a
big favor.

Usenet is awash with Dildo-like cretins, full of sound and fury launching
unprovoked attacks, but when they meet someone who stands up to them, they
run and hide under their beds as fast as their little legs will carry them.

Post by Phildo
Jeez, a petulant child of a muso trying to tell the pros how to do it.
Whatever next?

Is Dildo a sound engineer or a sound "engineer." Engineers proper went to
a reputable college for 4-6 years.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he is a sound technician instead.

Running out of ideas so fast is not the hallmark of a brain that has gone
through a full academic experience.

Post by Phildo
<PLONK>
Phildo

Since I'll stay a while in this newsgroup it'll be interesting to see if
this penis succedaneum peeks through his killfile or piggybacks on other
people's post to lob spitballs.

Killfilers are most interesting people. Contrary to their words and
<plonks>, they seldom can resist the curiosity to know what the plonkees are
saying about them, and they peek and cheat, and get caught.

They also have the bizarre notion that they are punishing people by putting
them in a killfile.

Dildo seems to be one of them, he says I am, "dumb enough to enter my
killfile."

The sheer lunacy of these people thinking that anyone would somehow feel
crestfallen because they won't read his or her posts.

It reminds me of our funky president who thinks he punishes world leaders he
doesn't like by not inviting them to Crawford. Like Jacques Chirac, who
lives in the sumptuous Elysée Palace, is going to resent missing on
Crawford.

Hilarious.

Tiglath

2005-10-15 23:15:08 UTC

Post by tiglath
By reading a few of your interlocutors I see you have a reputation of
being highly opinionated and given to universal statements and absolute
pontifications.

By reading a few of your posts on here I have come to the conclusion that
you are a know-nothing twat,

And there he crosses the line, therefore setting himself up no longer as
debater but entertainment. I hope you are better at it that at sound
engineering...

Remember in days ahead when potential regrets may set in that you cast the
first stone with an unprovoked offensive attack.

I have no problem admitting my ignorance in matters I am ignorant of, I have
done so here several times. You should try it.

Post by Phildo
very highly opinionated yourself, jealous of
those of us

Hilarious. You are the equivalent of those in museums who hang the
pictures of true artists in the walls tastefully and call it an art, and for
what I read here you are not even held in very high esteem by your
colleagues, which makes you a mediocre 'painting hanger.' One who dreams
others envy him. I shall soon demonstrate to you how much there is to envy
in you. Please write more.

Post by Phildo
There is a big difference between Bose home stuff and their pro audio.

You don't read too well, do you. The BOSE PAS system is not sold as home
audio but as professional equipment for musicians, and that is what we've
been talking about in this thread FROM THE OUTSET. What's your problem,
too many birds on your antennae?

I forgot you are the fellow who couldn't even think of the Behringer model
that beats the Mack 1402 VLZ-Pro, even though he swore there was one.

Why do you favor cheap stuff like Behringer? Is your lack of professional
success what keeps you strapped for cash?

How much you make in a year, boy?

Let us see what there is for others to be so jealous of...

Post by Phildo
Of course, you being a know-nothing amateur you wouldn't know that.

It's funny to see you dig a deeper hole for yourself.

Post by Phildo
Congratulations, you just made a complete tit of yourself in front of the
whole group.

In just one post you've wrote enough to merit being called a prick, but
considering your bad vibrations you are more like a faulty dildo.

Phildo The Dildo, it has a nice ring to it.

Post by Phildo
I grew up mixing on a bose system (802/302), I know their
strengths, weaknesses and how they compare with what is out there today.

In other words you don't have a Bose PAS but pretend to have an informed
opinion of it.

Post by Phildo
Their professional gear is dated,

How can the PAS be so dated if it was invented recently?

Post by Phildo
over-marketed, overpriced and needs
drastic processing to sound anywhere near decent. Good for speech but that's
about it.

Many professional and amateur musicians disagree with you.

I don't know much you but after reading a few of your posts and seeing the
way you interact with your colleagues and how inept you are at keeping
polite company, your character and mental furniture become evidently clear.
It means that your opinion compared to that of successful musicians is not
worth hearing unless one has a love for mockery. It also means that it
would be an excellent investment to buy you for what you are worth and sell
you for what you think you are worth.

Tim Scott

2005-10-16 00:26:50 UTC