Ultra-Curve Pro DEQ2496 Connections?

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

Black Frog

2003-08-11 01:54:10 UTC

Be aware that the 2496 does not have 1/4" inputs, so your average
insert cable isn't going to work.

What is the best way to connect the Ultra-Curve Pro to the mixer.
Via the inserts on the mixer or between the main outs and the
crossover?
Thanks!!

Arny Krueger

2003-08-11 11:20:52 UTC

Permalink

What is the best way to connect the Ultra-Curve Pro to the mixer.
Via the inserts on the mixer or between the main outs and the
crossover?

Depends what you want to equalize.

Inserts - equalize one microphone

Main outs - equalize all mics the same

David Duffy

2003-08-11 11:41:00 UTC

Permalink

Post by Arny Krueger

What is the best way to connect the Ultra-Curve Pro to the mixer.
Via the inserts on the mixer or between the main outs and the
crossover?

Depends what you want to equalize.
Inserts - equalize one microphone
Main outs - equalize all mics the same

Possibly the OP meant the inserts on the main outs
and not the individual channel inserts?
David...

Einars Cintins

2003-08-11 16:48:27 UTC

Permalink

What is the best way to connect the Ultra-Curve Pro to the mixer.
Via the inserts on the mixer or between the main outs and the
crossover?
Thanks!!

I'd use second option because of bad experience with "big brother"
8024- it had +14 dB digital max. level and exceeding this, which
sometimes can happen as master insert is before master fader, the unit
went into hard bypas mode. This means that when you're up to +14
internal relay connects input and output directly and all EQ, delays,
etc. are off for that moment. Level goes back and unit is back on...
Don't think it's a best way to build one of most important parts of
sound system. Have heard this problem from several people who tried to
use unit in master insert. Best option is to plug it after desk sum
fader or even PGM compressor/limiter if possible.

Einars Cintins
sound engineer

Stratman

2003-08-11 20:23:01 UTC

Permalink

Post by Einars Cintins

What is the best way to connect the Ultra-Curve Pro to the mixer.
Via the inserts on the mixer or between the main outs and the
crossover?
Thanks!!

Think thats the way I'm going to connect it. Between the main
outs and my crossover.

Thanks!

d***@spamblock.demon.co.uk

2003-08-11 21:46:44 UTC

Permalink

Post by Einars Cintins
I'd use second option because of bad experience with "big brother"
8024- it had +14 dB digital max. level and exceeding this, which
sometimes can happen as master insert is before master fader, the unit
went into hard bypas mode. This means that when you're up to +14
internal relay connects input and output directly and all EQ, delays,
etc. are off for that moment.

So THATS what the fucker was doing! Understanding dawns, had this
during a show, but couldn't reproduce on the bench. Someone elses system
so not really my problem but my god I was tearing my hair trying to mix
that gig! It would surely have made sense to include a 10db pad on each
input to push input clipping up to a more reasonable level.

One more idiot designer for my 'little list'.....

Regards, Dan.

--
** The email address *IS* valid, do NOT remove the spamblock
And on the evening of the first day the lord said...........
.... LX 1, GO!; and there was light.

Carl Updegraff

2003-08-11 23:41:45 UTC

Permalink

Post by Einars Cintins

What is the best way to connect the Ultra-Curve Pro to the mixer.
Via the inserts on the mixer or between the main outs and the
crossover?
Thanks!!

What ARE you going on about?

You need to rethink how you mix and gain stage your gear.

AND talk to the 'several people' who have had the same problem.

You guys need to visit Chuck McGregor's dissertation on gain staging.
http://www.prosoundweb.com/studyhall/studyjump.php?pdf=basic_gain

Actually, hang out in the study hall for a while. It'll do you some
good.

AND take a look at the DSP 8024 and DEQ2496 manual.
http://www.behringer.com/02_products/prodindex.cfm?id=DSP8024&lang=eng
http://www.behringer.com/02_products/prodindex.cfm?id=DEQ2496&lang=eng

I have NEVER had the issue you speak of, whether inserted on the L/R
buss or run in series. I have been running DSP 8000, DSP 8024,
DEQ2496 since their inception.

Damn...+14db!!!

Makes one think that maybe I've got a lot more sissues than I think I
do if people *routinely* encounter +14db on their mixing consoles...

Poll? How hot do YOU routinely run your mixing desk?

Carl

2003-08-12 01:02:51 UTC

Permalink

Post by Carl Updegraff
AND take a look at the DSP 8024 and DEQ2496 manual.
http://www.behringer.com/02_products/prodindex.cfm?id=DSP8024&lang=eng
http://www.behringer.com/02_products/prodindex.cfm?id=DEQ2496&lang=eng

As far as I've seen, the manual always puts the device after the mixer and
not inserted.

Post by Carl Updegraff
I have NEVER had the issue you speak of, whether inserted on the L/R
buss or run in series. I have been running DSP 8000, DSP 8024,
DEQ2496 since their inception.
Damn...+14db!!!

Again, the manual shows +12 or +22 switchable on main ins and outs. Aux out
is +12 only.

Post by Carl Updegraff
Makes one think that maybe I've got a lot more sissues than I think I
do if people *routinely* encounter +14db on their mixing consoles...
Poll? How hot do YOU routinely run your mixing desk?

Normal peaks in the music at ~+6db on my MixWiz.

GK

Carl Updegraff

2003-08-12 02:36:43 UTC

Permalink

Post by GK

As far as I've seen, the manual always puts the device after the mixer and
not inserted.

Again, the manual shows +12 or +22 switchable on main ins and outs. Aux out
is +12 only.

The 8024 in question has a +16db max out and a +21db max in...So to
actually CLIP something to *shorting* the in/out is ABSOLUTELY
AMAZING.

Post by GK

Normal peaks in the music at ~+6db on my MixWiz.
GK

Thanks for the response, GK.

That's the hidden point. The only scenario where a +14db transient
*or* program is w/ a DJ redlining the system...

*Most* mixers have +10db as a warning signal light...It's usually the
first yellow light on the leds..

The *only* times I have to drive beyond *normal* operating levels is
w/ my MP418 P subs...The cheeeeep as CE2000 that they have needs to be
pushed pretty damn hard to get stuff moving. Because the x-overs are
built into that particular piece, I get my drive from the OUTPUT gain
on the GRAPHIC eq...Still, NOT getting above +4-6db on my mixer...

When I use DSP, my system is gain staged so that +4 on my mixer
equates to lighting the limiters on my DSP and *almost* clipping the
amplifier...No NEED to go above +4...

When stuff starts getting pushed hard...It...well...sounds like it's
*PUSHED HARD*...Including mixers.

Maybe I'm just NUTS.

Carl

Paul van der Heu

2003-08-12 11:30:12 UTC

Permalink

If you run as high as that on the mix bus pre-fader you have a definate
problem with your gain structure IMO

I hardly ever get as high as +6 dB on the main bus

Einars Cintins

2003-08-13 09:46:05 UTC

Permalink

Post by Paul van der Heu

If you run as high as that on the mix bus pre-fader you have a definate
problem with your gain structure IMO
I hardly ever get as high as +6 dB on the main bus

+6 RMS you mean? Yes, I agree, this is normal maximum you can observe.
Unit switched off at +14 peak.

Einars Cintins
sound engineer

Einars Cintins

2003-08-17 22:06:08 UTC

Permalink

What the hell were you doing at +14db? If you are going to do stupid things
like that then it is no wonder you can't get your gear to work properly.
Phildo

Hi,

I did that as experiment after being told this unit works that way.
That was bad surprise and one more reason to keep away from these.

br, Einars Cintins
sound engineer

Jason Lavoie

2003-08-23 00:50:24 UTC

Permalink

The 8024 is not the big brother of the DEQ2496. They are completely
different animals. It's like comparing a Lockheed p-38 lightning to a F117
stealth fighter. Same companymake them, they do the same job but are light
years apart.
Anyway, the 8024 was an EQ not a limiter. Given that you would never
normally go that high and you should have decent limiters on your system
anyway I can't see it ever being a problem in normal use. Personally though
I have never heard of the unit doing that before and neither has anyone else
I've spoken to about it. Maybe you just had a duff unit.

fwiw, the 8024 does have a limiter funtion.

but I'm interested in hearing whether the 2496 has solved the common
problems with the 8024 such as: being able to use the RTA without
interrupting EQ operation?
also, I remember something about the feedback eliminator not working
unless you were in the parametric EQ menu permanently.

Jason

Carl Updegraff

2003-08-23 10:28:43 UTC

Permalink

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 20:50:24 -0400, Jason Lavoie

Post by Jason Lavoie

fwiw, the 8024 does have a limiter funtion.
but I'm interested in hearing whether the 2496 has solved the common
problems with the 8024 such as: being able to use the RTA without
interrupting EQ operation?
also, I remember something about the feedback eliminator not working
unless you were in the parametric EQ menu permanently.
Jason

??

The basic DEQ 2496 marketing flyer mentions the independant usage of
the RTA. It has it's own input, etc. Take the time to check
Behringer's website....It's there..clear as mud..

I've never even HEARD of the FBD issue you speak of...How bizarre...

Carl

Jason Lavoie

2003-08-23 19:20:23 UTC

Permalink

Post by Carl Updegraff

Post by Jason Lavoie
but I'm interested in hearing whether the 2496 has solved the common
problems with the 8024 such as: being able to use the RTA without
interrupting EQ operation?
also, I remember something about the feedback eliminator not working
unless you were in the parametric EQ menu permanently.
Jason

??
The basic DEQ 2496 marketing flyer mentions the independant usage of
the RTA. It has it's own input, etc. Take the time to check
Behringer's website....It's there..clear as mud..

the 8024 has a separate input for the reference mic too. but there's
only enough DSP power to do one thing at a time.. so switching to RTA
mode interrupts the main input (NOT good for live sound)

Jason

Carl Updegraff

2003-08-24 09:55:10 UTC

Permalink

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 15:20:23 -0400, Jason Lavoie

Post by Jason Lavoie

Post by Carl Updegraff

??
The basic DEQ 2496 marketing flyer mentions the independant usage of
the RTA. It has it's own input, etc. Take the time to check
Behringer's website....It's there..clear as mud..

Hey howdy hey (quote complements of Riders In The Sky)

I know about the 8024...
I also know that you can put the RTA input to the EQ output and use
the RTA while the eq is still in-line...It simply POPS (not so simple,
eh?) when you switch between the two..

The eq still functions, etc..Why are we having this conversation?

The DEQ2496 (once again, go to Behringer's website and read their one
page blurp on the unit), is capable of independant RTA and EQ
functions..I've been using my 1/2 dozen or so units in this manner for
the past several weeks..It's kinda cool, actually.

I use my control room outputs to my main L/R DEQ's RTA input.
My monitors use the RTA patched through the eq input' so I can see the
response..Cool for identifying FB prior to it becoming an issue..

The RTA input isn't 'for the reference mic', it's an input w/
selectable functions and levels (even has phantom power on/off)..You
*can* use the input for a reference mic, but that's not it's sole
function.

The DEQ is not even remotely the same animal as the 8024. The 8024 is
a stand alone eq w/ a couple of extra functions.

The DEQ is a PROCESSOR that is designed to complement the DCX
2496..Different design (or photocopy) philosophy..

Check out their site....

oh, and have fun doing it...

Carl

Jason Lavoie

2003-08-24 21:33:38 UTC

Permalink

Post by Carl Updegraff
I know about the 8024...
I also know that you can put the RTA input to the EQ output and use
the RTA while the eq is still in-line...It simply POPS (not so simple,
eh?) when you switch between the two..
The eq still functions, etc..Why are we having this conversation?

because I can't get my unit to do what you're suggesting it should be
able to do :)

when the 8024 is in RTA mode the only way I get any output from it is
when the in/out button is set to out. of course this bypasses the EQ.

so I'm not sure how you manage to use the RTA while the EQ is still
in-line.

Jason

Carl Updegraff

2003-08-24 22:23:25 UTC

Permalink

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 17:33:38 -0400, Jason Lavoie

Post by Jason Lavoie

because I can't get my unit to do what you're suggesting it should be
able to do :)
when the 8024 is in RTA mode the only way I get any output from it is
when the in/out button is set to out. of course this bypasses the EQ.
so I'm not sure how you manage to use the RTA while the EQ is still
in-line.
Jason

Jason..Jason!

You didn't visit Behringer's Website, did you?
The answers to life's questions are there....

In RTA mode, with the 'reference' off, the RTA responds to the EQ
curve set on the eq portion..SO..If you have the RTA reference curve
set to OFF and no tones/noise (RTA set to 'input') going through the
RTA, the RTA screen will track the INPUT of the unit, and pass audio
utilizing the curve on the eq... You'll *see* the input signal w/
respect to the EQ curve..

It's cool, but once you are in RTA mode and start an event, no
switchie switchie back and forth..

I have a DSP 8000 that actually goes SILENT when in RTA mode. It's
that damn 1.5 upgrade...Sometimes it's better to stay BEHIND the
times, eh/

Try it..You might like it...Now give me a big
sloppy...well....burger...(reference to HAIR)..

;-)

Carl

Jason Lavoie

2003-08-25 00:10:35 UTC

Permalink

Post by Carl Updegraff
Jason..Jason!
You didn't visit Behringer's Website, did you?

carl carl! yes I did!

Post by Carl Updegraff
The answers to life's questions are there....

no they're not!

Post by Carl Updegraff
In RTA mode, with the 'reference' off, the RTA responds to the EQ
curve set on the eq portion..SO..If you have the RTA reference curve
set to OFF and no tones/noise (RTA set to 'input') going through the
RTA, the RTA screen will track the INPUT of the unit, and pass audio
utilizing the curve on the eq... You'll *see* the input signal w/
respect to the EQ curve..

doing this does gives you RTA and audio output simultaneously. but
even though the in/out light is on, the EQ is definitely bypassed (any
adjustments I made audibly disappeared when I had the RTA on the
display.

Jason

jazzman

2003-08-13 04:34:27 UTC

Permalink

What is the best way to connect the Ultra-Curve Pro to the mixer.
Via the inserts on the mixer or between the main outs and the
crossover?

After the main outs, for these reasons and more:

-this device has an RTA, which- as an analysis tool- I typically place last
in the stereo chain, and;
-the insert points may be unbalanced depending on the mixer. Using the DEQ's
balanced connectivity is defeated here. This is intended to be an
'audiophile' level device, and;
-it is possible to connect other units (in a typical main insert chain) "in
front" of the DEQ... this could defeat the RTA function of the DEQ
(mentioned above). You would have to ensure that the DEQ was last in the
chain for most situations. You could just hook it up to the main output to
avoid this, and;
-if you are using the limiter function.

Regards,

Jim

Joe Lawrence

2003-08-14 20:14:58 UTC

Permalink

Is the DEQ2496 stereo out? I have powered cabs and it would be cool to go
stereo let alone not having to parallel from cab1 to cab2.Also, could I use
a mono input- stereo output? Seems like a descent piece of gear if you're
not a moron with levels.

Post by jazzman

What is the best way to connect the Ultra-Curve Pro to the mixer.
Via the inserts on the mixer or between the main outs and the
crossover?

-this device has an RTA, which- as an analysis tool- I typically place last
in the stereo chain, and;
-the insert points may be unbalanced depending on the mixer. Using the DEQ's
balanced connectivity is defeated here. This is intended to be an
'audiophile' level device, and;
-it is possible to connect other units (in a typical main insert chain) "in
front" of the DEQ... this could defeat the RTA function of the DEQ
(mentioned above). You would have to ensure that the DEQ was last in the
chain for most situations. You could just hook it up to the main output to
avoid this, and;
-if you are using the limiter function.
Regards,
Jim

Carl Updegraff

2003-08-14 21:27:47 UTC

Permalink

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 20:14:58 GMT, "Joe Lawrence"

Post by Joe Lawrence
Is the DEQ2496 stereo out? I have powered cabs and it would be cool to go
stereo let alone not having to parallel from cab1 to cab2.Also, could I use
a mono input- stereo output? Seems like a descent piece of gear if you're
not a moron with levels.

Post by jazzman

What is the best way to connect the Ultra-Curve Pro to the mixer.
Via the inserts on the mixer or between the main outs and the
crossover?

-this device has an RTA, which- as an analysis tool- I typically place

last

Post by jazzman
in the stereo chain, and;
-the insert points may be unbalanced depending on the mixer. Using the

DEQ's

Post by jazzman
balanced connectivity is defeated here. This is intended to be an
'audiophile' level device, and;
-it is possible to connect other units (in a typical main insert chain)

"in

Post by jazzman
front" of the DEQ... this could defeat the RTA function of the DEQ
(mentioned above). You would have to ensure that the DEQ was last in the
chain for most situations. You could just hook it up to the main output to
avoid this, and;
-if you are using the limiter function.
Regards,
Jim

You top posted...How rude..Hey, are you married to Topanga?

;-)

Your 'moron' comment shows that you don't understand the DEQ2496 at
all.

The headroom issues mentioned in previous threads was discussing the
DSP8024, NOT the DEQ2496. It's max in/out is just about the same as
it's MUCH more expensive brothers.

Still, a moron could find a way to make it sound bad or not work!

You'd be hard pressed to find a better EQ at 4X the price...
The DEQ 2496 is pretty cool.

Carl

Carl Updegraff

2003-08-15 05:45:54 UTC

Permalink

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 05:36:53 GMT, "Joe Lawrence"

Post by Carl Updegraff
You top posted...How rude..Hey, are you married to Topanga?
;-)
Your 'moron' comment shows that you don't understand the DEQ2496 at
all.
The headroom issues mentioned in previous threads was discussing the
DSP8024, NOT the DEQ2496. It's max in/out is just about the same as
it's MUCH more expensive brothers.
Still, a moron could find a way to make it sound bad or not work!
You'd be hard pressed to find a better EQ at 4X the price...
The DEQ 2496 is pretty cool.
Carl

Sorry for the top post...I didn't think it was a big deal.
The 'moron' comment was just a joke but it did refer to posts about
Behringer gear....and the 'pro' sound guy that dissed it. And yes I don't
understand the DEQ2496, that is why I posted a question! I guess I'll have
to download the pdf and check it out myself.
Thanks for the recommendation though, It's nice to know before you buy
what's a good deal.
Joe L

The majority of my post was tongie in cheekie. Especially following a
'Topanga' reference.

Seriously though, the DEQ2496 is a SERIOUS piece of kit. It's street
price belies it's quality heart. The cool part is you can get one now
and have it in your rig....Then in about 2 years, when the 'rest o the
audio world' catches on, you'll have been ahead of the game..

It's sometimes cool being on the front of the wave vs straggling in on
the tail.

Carl

Joe Lawrence

2003-08-16 09:38:37 UTC

Permalink

Post by Carl Updegraff
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 05:36:53 GMT, "Joe Lawrence"

The majority of my post was tongie in cheekie. Especially following a
'Topanga' reference.
Seriously though, the DEQ2496 is a SERIOUS piece of kit. It's street
price belies it's quality heart. The cool part is you can get one now
and have it in your rig....Then in about 2 years, when the 'rest o the
audio world' catches on, you'll have been ahead of the game..
It's sometimes cool being on the front of the wave vs straggling in on
the tail.
Carl

Even cooler to me is quality sound without hassle. I'm not running a sound
company, so if the latest processor is $4k and takes up several rack spaces
I'm SOL.So affordability and size are major concerns for me.Being only 1
rack space has me thinking of 2 purchases, 1 for foh and 1 for IEM. There's
a DBX IEM processor unit but it retails over $1k. Not a comparison! The
local music stores have just got DEQ's in stock up here ( Canada), so I'll
be able to check them out first hand.
Joe L