What Are The 1/4 Jacks In My Snake For?

[Z-Man]

I need to send the signal from my POD to a Powered Mixer. I would
rather not add a direct box if I don't have to. Can I just go into the
1/4 jacks in the snake and out the other side into the PA? It's a 50
foot snake. I've been told that this is too far for the signal to
travel, but I've done it before without problems that I can hear. The
output on the pod is set for studio/PA. If not this, what are those
extra channels in the snake good for?

[George Gleason]

Post by Z-Man
I need to send the signal from my POD to a Powered Mixer. I would
rather not add a direct box if I don't have to. Can I just go into the
1/4 jacks in the snake and out the other side into the PA? It's a 50
foot snake. I've been told that this is too far for the signal to
travel, but I've done it before without problems that I can hear. The
output on the pod is set for studio/PA. If not this, what are those
extra channels in the snake good for?

you will not "hurt" your pod/snake or mixer doing what your doing
its not ideal in terms of freq response or impeadence matching but if your
happy with it there is no real reason to change
your appilcation is not that critical or demanding
just be aware the right way is to convert your Hi-z output from the pod to a
lo-z signal that feeds on the xlr
the 1/4 inch lines are called returns
better snakes have xlr returns not 1/4 inch
george

[Z-Man]

Ok, I remember now--they are for sending the mix to onstage power amps,
right? I will just save me from having to buy a direct box or a 25
foot long guitar cable.

[Peter Larsen]

Post by George Gleason

I need to send the signal from my POD [via snake] to a Powered
Mixer.

you will not "hurt" your pod/snake or mixer doing what your doing

There is no obvious reason why it should not work flawlessly. A
headphone output is always also a valid low impedance line output with
good drive capability and fair immunity to treble loss caused by cable
capacitance.

Post by George Gleason
its not ideal in terms of freq response or impeadence matching

For a frequency response issue to exist the cable capacitance and the
output impendance both need to be high, actual output impedance in this
millenium is likely to be in the 100 Ohm range or lower for a line
output, there are exceptions but not for headphone outputs, and
headphone outputs can also always deliver the current requrired to have
full high frequency output voltage into the cable capacitance.

Post by George Gleason
but if your
happy with it there is no real reason to change

Agreed.

Post by George Gleason
your appilcation is not that critical or demanding

Agreed, the likely issues are dimmer noise or hum due to the signal
hardly being balanced, but it is not very likely to be a large issue
with a decent line signal voltage.

Post by George Gleason
just be aware the right way is to convert your Hi-z output from the pod to a
lo-z signal that feeds on the xlr

Where do you get the Hi-Z concept from, it is not possible to make a
headphone output that is able to actually drive headphones and let it
have a high output impedance. Just about anything accepts a 1 kOhm load
impedance the recommendation is likely to be 10 kOhm.

The concern that does exist is balanced-unbalanced and the cure is easy:
a pair of line level coupling and isolation transformers, but they are
not really required unless there is a hum or noise issue. This based on
the asumption that the pod is run on batteries on stage. It comes across
as if you are using the terms "hi-z" and "low-z" and "balanced" and
"unbalanced" interchangingly, the only actual hi-z sources around that I
am aware ofare guitar pickups.

Post by George Gleason
the 1/4 inch lines are called returns
better snakes have xlr returns not 1/4 inch
george

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[George Gleason]

Post by Peter Larsen

Post by George Gleason

I need to send the signal from my POD [via snake] to a Powered
Mixer.

you will not "hurt" your pod/snake or mixer doing what your doing

There is no obvious reason why it should not work flawlessly. A
headphone output is always also a valid low impedance line output with
good drive capability and fair immunity to treble loss caused by cable
capacitance.

Post by George Gleason
its not ideal in terms of freq response or impeadence matching

For a frequency response issue to exist the cable capacitance and the
output impendance both need to be high, actual output impedance in this
millenium is likely to be in the 100 Ohm range or lower for a line
output, there are exceptions but not for headphone outputs, and
headphone outputs can also always deliver the current requrired to have
full high frequency output voltage into the cable capacitance.

Post by George Gleason
but if your
happy with it there is no real reason to change

Agreed.

Post by George Gleason
your appilcation is not that critical or demanding

Agreed, the likely issues are dimmer noise or hum due to the signal
hardly being balanced, but it is not very likely to be a large issue
with a decent line signal voltage.

Post by George Gleason
just be aware the right way is to convert your Hi-z output from the pod to a
lo-z signal that feeds on the xlr

Where do you get the Hi-Z concept from, it is not possible to make a
headphone output that is able to actually drive headphones

I must have missed the part that said "headphone output"
I was reading it as a typical line out
George

[Peter Larsen]

Post by George Gleason

Post by Peter Larsen
Where do you get the Hi-Z concept from, it is not possible to make a
headphone output that is able to actually drive headphones

I must have missed the part that said "headphone output"

There was no specific such part, but my understanding of such
contraptions is that they only have a headphone output.

Post by George Gleason
I was reading it as a typical line out

Such would still have a source impedance in the 100 Ohm range and the
first 100 feet of wiring on the output would be unlikely to cause any
treble response issues and they would be reasonably immune to RF and
other electromagnetic interference because of the low source impedance.

The affiliation between the wording Hi-Z and a jackplug only applies for
inputs that are designed for loading instrument pickups with a load
impedance requirement of 500 kOhm. Such inputs are not the best GP line
inputs in case maximum dynamic range is required because the thermic
noise of their input resistor makes them somewhat noisier than a 10 kOhm
input.

The high impedance of a Hi-Z input means that it can be used with
sources that require a very high load impedance to have a proper
frequency response, but it never excludes the use of sources with a low
output impedance. Way back in the valve days a low output impedance
source was likely also to have a low output voltage, because the low
output impedance was obtained via a transformer. Back then your concern
would have applied, because a transformer coupled output can get
incorrect frequency response (treble peaking due to LC resonance(s))
with too high a load impedance. It was a good practice to be somewhat
concerned with not having _too_ high (x) a load impedance, indeed with
moving coil cartridges it still is, but that is another ballgame.

(if treble peaking occurs it is too high, ie. it depends on the actual
equipment, but some kind of coil has to be there for the issue to exist.
This very issue also means that guitar amps and guitars and the actual
lead used need to be well matched ...)

Post by George Gleason
George

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[mackerr]

Post by George Gleason
I must have missed the part that said "headphone output"
I was reading it as a typical line out
George

I think you missed it because it was never there. The OP has a PODxt
which has +4 balanced outputs on TRS connectors. He does not need to
use the headphone output, which can confuse things as it needs to be
split into 2 unbalanced lowZ outputs, or have everything panned to one
side to create a balanced circuit with unbalanced audio. The read deal
+4 balanced outputs are built in.

http://www.line6.com/podxt/ins_outs.html

Mac

[mackerr]

Post by Z-Man
I need to send the signal from my POD to a Powered Mixer. I would
rather not add a direct box if I don't have to. Can I just go into the
1/4 jacks in the snake and out the other side into the PA?

You don't mention which POD you have, so it is a little hard to know
exactly what the outputs are, but I think the outputs on a POD 2.0 or
POD XT are balanced TRS. This would mean it is OK to use the 1/4" lines
in your snake. You could also use a TRS to MXLR adapter, and use the
XLR lines, all without a DI. If the outputs are TRS as I believe, the
POD essentially has a DI built in. The other answer is to try it and
see what it sounds like. It's not like you're going to damage anything.

Mac

[Z-Man]

Thanks for your help--It's a PODxt. That's good news--I'm trying to
keep things a simple as possible.

[Geoff@home]

Post by Z-Man
I need to send the signal from my POD to a Powered Mixer. I would
rather not add a direct box if I don't have to. Can I just go into the
1/4 jacks in the snake and out the other side into the PA? It's a 50
foot snake. I've been told that this is too far for the signal to
travel, but I've done it before without problems that I can hear. The
output on the pod is set for studio/PA. If not this, what are those
extra channels in the snake good for?

It is too far for an unbalanced (and probably mid-high impedence) signal to
go.

Interference is possible, and high freq loss probable.

Dunno what the 1/4 jacks are for - kinda depends on your snale. Maybe TRS
jacks parrallel to XLRs.

geoff

[Mike Dobony]

Post by Z-Man
I need to send the signal from my POD to a Powered Mixer. I would
rather not add a direct box if I don't have to. Can I just go into the
1/4 jacks in the snake and out the other side into the PA? It's a 50
foot snake. I've been told that this is too far for the signal to
travel, but I've done it before without problems that I can hear. The
output on the pod is set for studio/PA. If not this, what are those
extra channels in the snake good for?

My first question would be how many contacts are on the 1/4" jacks? if 2
then this is unbalanced and probably too long for a good signal. If 3 and
you are using balanced 1/4" outputs than you shoud be ok. The only real
difference between XLR balanced and 1/4" balanced is the connector style
and has nothing at all to do with sound quality.

Mike D.